T. Boone Energy Plan

[dale116dot7]

Of course, most of us have probably heard about it. What do people think? I'll put down my thoughts to start, but I'd like to hear more.

On the positive side, his plan would reduce, or perhaps eventually eliminate the need to import oil. This is part of a trade imbalance that probably has contributed to the current economic mess. It gets us using a cleaner fuel - cleaner to extract, cleaner to process, and cleaner to use, and gets us going into renewable energy sources. The technologies needed to implement it are established. The existing vehicle fleet can actually be converted, if enough demand for particular engine models exists.

On the negative side, it may not be a total solution as gas will be depleted some day, too.

A lot of people criticize his plan because he stands to make a lot of money on it. To be quite honest, I don't care if we do the right things for the wrong reasons. It's a win-win-win IMHO. The world wins, the USA wins, and T.Boone wins.

If it counts for anything, India, Thailand, Bangladesh, China have all been on T.Boone's natural gas vehicle plan for a while, so it's not really that new, although they are starting with essentially no vehicle fleet so there is no upgrading or fleet replacement issues - they only have to sell new CNG vehicles - which they are doing.

Comments? How do you think this would affect the economy long-term? Foreign policy? Air quality?

-Dale

 

[JohnRoberts]

My take is that he is selling his own book (CLNE)... Curious that Nancy Pelosi is also an large investor in his company, while she is a little confused in some of her energy statements, it doesn't hurt T Boone to have friends in that high place.

I remember when they used to just flare off gas, so it's good to put it to productive use. There is infrastructure being built to handle large LNG tankers, so this will be a significant global fuel in future.

It has less energy density than refined gasoline but it could be used more widely for local delivery fleets (like UPS, FEDEX, etc), where they can refuel from a local depot. This could displace imported oil with domestic NG. IIRC CLNE recently bought the home NG refueling program from Honda so homes using gas heat can fill up cars at home. But a national network of consumer gas stations seems optimistic from T Boone alone, without some heavy support from government.

It makes immediate sense right now for power plants. I think my brother just worked on a new one in the SW US. It is already in use here for some city buses and small truck fleets.

I think we need to loosen up the tight margin between supply and demand that has made oil prices so volatile and high. perhaps a little global recession will take some pressure off demand side, but a painful way to get oil prices lower.. Gas at the moment is relatively low, but oil is soft too at the moment.

T Boone is also into windmills and solar. He got the state of Texas to pay for a High Voltage distribution system between his wind farms in the west, and dense population centers.

T Boone is a smart cookie and all his TV advertisements are indeed selling something. Public sentiment for government (our) money investment in infrastructure. Not evil but a little manipulative IMO...

JR

EDIT- I just read in the paper, Bush signed $17B alternate energy bill into law friday supporting wind, solar, geothermal, and even a mere $1.5B for making jet fuel out of coal.

 

[Gus]

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_25/b4089040017753.htm?chan=search

 

[AirerZer]

        I do not have much information about T. Boone .,Can you add more information about this.,?





_________________
Aprilaire

 

[EZ81]

Oh, seems one clever Spambot got through. There is a gazillion single ELIZA-like posts like this by someone called AirerZer spread across the net. I'd like to know how it manages to sign up with all the spam protection...

 

[ENS Audio]

Of course, most of us have probably heard about it. What do people think? I'll put down my thoughts to start, but I'd like to hear more.

On the positive side, his plan would reduce, or perhaps eventually eliminate the need to import oil. This is part of a trade imbalance that probably has contributed to the current economic mess. It gets us using a cleaner fuel - cleaner to extract, cleaner to process, and cleaner to use, and gets us going into renewable energy sources. The technologies needed to implement it are established. The existing vehicle fleet can actually be converted, if enough demand for particular engine models exists.

On the negative side, it may not be a total solution as gas will be depleted some day, too.

A lot of people criticize his plan because he stands to make a lot of money on it. To be quite honest, I don't care if we do the right things for the wrong reasons. It's a win-win-win IMHO. The world wins, the USA wins, and T.Boone wins.

If it counts for anything, India, Thailand, Bangladesh, China have all been on T.Boone's natural gas vehicle plan for a while, so it's not really that new, although they are starting with essentially no vehicle fleet so there is no upgrading or fleet replacement issues - they only have to sell new CNG vehicles - which they are doing.

Comments? How do you think this would affect the economy long-term? Foreign policy? Air quality?

-Dale

Yeah Mr. Pickns was on Coast 2 Coast last sunday and IMO pretty much laid out his plan to the public.  Being the "good-guilty white liberal" that I am my basic instincts tell me not to trust him but I do respect him for his honesty, he made the point that "yes, my goal is to make boatloads of money as any mean evil capitalist would do" most importantly Pickens reminded me of the fact that we're still buying oil from the Saudi royal family and this alone is jacking up the trade deficit, to paraphrase "its our problem not his" so if we as a general population support his plan and Mr. Pickens can hold true to his word then in the name of the "free market" we won't have to be at the mercy of the Saudi royal thugs.

In conclusion Pickens made it clears he's out for himself but incidentally we the people will benefit from this venture capitalist.  Now does anyone here think his plan of running on natural gas/alt energy would NOT be feasible?  BTW on a side note...woo hoo if Nancy Pelosi is an investor so what??  Pelosi is as liberal as Newt Gingrich is conservative, in politics there are whores and there are true idealogs (but possibly whores as well if the right lobbist is willing to "pay-up" Partisan politics...ha!  Ok..ok..back to the main discussion.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Yeah Mr. Pickns was on Coast 2 Coast last sunday and IMO pretty much laid out his plan to the public.  Being the "good-guilty white liberal" that I am my basic instincts tell me not to trust him but I do respect him for his honesty, he made the point that "yes, my goal is to make boatloads of money as any mean evil capitalist would do" most importantly Pickens reminded me of the fact that we're still buying oil from the Saudi royal family and this alone is jacking up the trade deficit, to paraphrase "its our problem not his" so if we as a general population support his plan and Mr. Pickens can hold true to his word then in the name of the "free market" we won't have to be at the mercy of the Saudi royal thugs.

In conclusion Pickens made it clears he's out for himself but incidentally we the people will benefit from this venture capitalist.  Now does anyone here think his plan of running on natural gas/alt energy would NOT be feasible?  BTW on a side note...woo hoo if Nancy Pelosi is an investor so what??  Pelosi is as liberal as Newt Gingrich is conservative, in politics there are whores and there are true idealogs (but possibly whores as well if the right lobbist is willing to "pay-up" Partisan politics...ha!  Ok..ok..back to the main discussion.

Natural gas is a co-product from many oil fields and we don't have the infrastructure (yet) to internationally move it around like we do oil. For several years now the energy industry has been building LNG super tankers and ports to bring it closer to developed markets. Based on recent price trends we are under utilizing local NG supply. In the near future it will probably be cheaper as world supply becomes more portable. So yes it makes sense. I could see it more effectively used by fleets of UPS and FEDEX trucks than for personal transportation. 

NG is dominated by local supply and demand which for the moment at least is bad for NG prices.. In fact NG has dropped below the traditional ratios where it historically tracked relative to oil. I suspect the reasons for this are multiple. The Barnett shale and other large recent domestic finds, plus the imminent world transportation of LNG increasing supply further, combined with the failure of T Boone to sell his plan to those with their hands on the levers of power, while some of the recent legislation to build up transmission line infrastructure will benefit his wind farms, et al.

While no one can dispute that the world oil markets enrich many bad actors, If we don't buy the oil, somebody else surely will. Oil is a fungible commodity so it doesn't matter whose oil we buy or don't buy. It will only make a difference in the marginal demand if we buy less. We could probably make a larger difference more cheaply by drilling in ANWAR and San Diego, but I am not holding my breath on that one.

All this arm waving about creating green jobs ignores that if an activity doesn't make economic sense, it is a drag on the economy and ultimately costs more jobs than it creates. Lots of these big wind turbines we see are made in India, and China is huge in solar power. I suspect we will become leaders in alternate energy when it actually becomes a viable solution for a real not hypothetical problem.

Regarding Nancy Pelosi's personal investments I don't mean to single her out (over this... there's so much more important stuff to tag her with). In this particular case I think the investment was made by her husband or jointly with her husband. As I think I have already pointed out, Judges routinely recuse themselves from decisions where they personally have commercial interest in the outcome. I see no reason why anyone in congress so matter of factly, gets to steer business towards companies they own interests in. Or are allowed to trade on market shifting information. Private individuals who trade on inside information go to jail. Pending legislation affecting industry regulation or awards of large contracts are very similar to inside information that is illegal to trade upon. I wouldn't mind some more investigation into Murtha's apparently less than arms length dealing of earmarks into his district, while I doubt he invented the practice.

This is only one of the corrupting influences on congress, and they are just human. Some less human than others.

JR

 

[Gus]

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=15669

 

[JohnRoberts]

Not to quibble but T Boone has already corrected that report cited in your article that he was bailing on his wind farms.. He has understandably slowed down his project in light of his personal economic situation. He lost his ass on oil dropping 50% since last summer. Maybe the government is bailing him (and friends) out.

Tax subsidies for consumers NG vehicles is nonsense... problem is no widespread infrastructure of gas stations for consumers...  NG makes more sense for fleet vehicles (UPS trucks, etc). Let the government outfit the post office and fed government offices with NG vehicles so they can manage the fleet fuel and maintenance in modest groups. 

NG is easier than Hydrogen, but infrastructure still isn't in place. Let the free market move toward NG based on actual economic benefit, or not.
JR

 

[ENS Audio]

Maybe the government is bailing him (and friends) out.

Would this be an example of "corporate socialism"??  ;D

 

[JohnRoberts]

Would this be an example of "corporate socialism"??  ;D

Well for T Boone it's more like the Soviet Oligarchs... but I don't quite see why he is getting government love...  now.

Corporate socialism is more like GM/Chrysler bailouts, but that is more bailing out the unions than the companies who are still in trouble IMO.

-----
re: NG from a year ago-

"Pelosi’s investment in Clean Energy – between $50,000 and $100,000 – is a tiny fraction of the speaker’s assets, as she pointed out on Sunday. “That’s not the point,” she added. “I’m investing in something I believe in.”  (CLEN- is name of Boones NG infrastructure play).

FWIW around the same time Nancy told Meet the Press:

“I believe in natural gas as a clean, cheap alternative to fossil fuels,”  and  [Natural gas] “is cheap, abundant and clean compared to fossil fuels,”. :

Alternative to fossil fuels... ?? You have to love the way the 3rd most powerful person in our government thinks.

JR

 

[sodderboy]

And now Boone is not going to built his fan farm in TX because the gov will not buy him the transmission lines.

This is the big mistake- a government cannot take money away from the economy (taxes) and create an efficient market for something.  Waste and patronage will be only two of the spoilers.  This goes for "clean technologies", healthcare, transportation, whatever. 

My congressman, Steve Israel, told me he voted for HR 2454 because he believes in strong national security.  But he had no answer when I challenged him that increasing the costs and legislation on domestic exploration and extraction would force us to import MORE foreign energy. 
There is no answer because the bill is bogus.  They should have called it the "Puppies and Kittens" instead of "Clean Air and National Security" Act- they both have the same relevance to the 1500 pages of gobbeldy-gook.  "You're not against puppies and kittens are you?!?".
Congressman Israel had no answer regarding having read the bill, or not having had any local meetings to discuss it.
Mike

 

[JohnRoberts]

The emerging opinion from the right is this carbon bill is a scam, the left considers it saving the planet... It's probably neither and both.

Our founders made the legislative process argumentative and partisan precisely so the process would be slow and deliberate. Signing bills that nobody reads is totally insane... Who the F__ is writing the legislation? Think about that...

All the urgency around these issues is manufactured, very likely to prevent deliberation over important issues.

Scary times...

JR