The Second Amendment

[kambo]

Call the parents?

homeless kids 

Call the police? :

do you want them to get shot by cops, especially if  kids are not white  !

Work out a deal with them to pick them for you....and give them some...

after a while, giving away couple of apples becomes too much! not that u needed them,
but we dont like sharing!
Native Americans made a deal, they are almost wiped out from the planet!

 

[kambo]

12 gauge, rocksalt load.

Gene

so must be pretty good shooter,
rock_Salt filled shell on ur eye; u r pretty much blind!
would you be happy to see a blind kid over couple of apples!

 

[kambo]

Under president Obama gun sales increased, now under president Trump, gun sales have quieted down again to the point where gun maker Remington is declaring bankruptcy (while they have other problems too).  I guess we should thank President Trump for slower gun sales.  :

i met some people in CA that they were touring the mid US during the last elections...
apparently Trump's team were slapping "Hillary Will Take Your Guns" "Hillary will do that etc" banners on every road you could imagine.
imagine a banner on every other mile... thats hard work, and alot of mileage to cover!
i guess you are right, we should thank President Trump for slower gun sales.  :
no reason to rush out to buy more gun. imagine if Hillary won.... OMG gun sales would go off the chart...
i think gun makers should help opposition if they want more gun sales  ;D

 

[JohnRoberts]

what u gonna do when couple of kids start eating your apples, before u!

I have actually given neighborhood kids permission to eat my apples, (and pears before my pear tree fell) when they were polite enough to ask.

get an AR-15 too

I carried the real deal (M16) when I was in the army, the AR15 is a look alike boy's toy for wannabe posers.  8)

As I already shared I haven't shot anybody (yet), and don't expect to, but pity the fool who breaks into my house while I am home. Even that does not have to end violently unless the intruder is irrational, but why would a rational person break into my house while I'm home?  :

=======

I read an interesting observation about how modern culture deals with these incidents. Media spends too many hours sharing too little real information, filling the broadcast air time with subjective emotional observations. The longer term cool and calm rational response, after objective data has been collected and digested, does not occur in plain sight.  Even congressional hearings are generally scheduled during this early emotional phase, while they have likely been working on these very issues for years, with differing solutions in mind. Politicians prefers to ride heated emotional waves. Cold hard logic is too hard to manipulate.

As I've already shared, progress is being made in Chicago with less kids murdered recently. Apparently this is not headline news. Media prefers topics that will scare us, to get ratings.

  JR

 

[dmp]

I carried the real deal (M16) when I was in the army, the AR15 is a look alike boy's toy for wannabe posers.

Aren't AR15s exactly the same except they are missing the auto sear?  From what I know the bolt,etc are all full auto compatible and the one little dodad to make it full auto is illegal to make since the '80s. Put that in and it's a M16. You can still buy them (licensed and regulated) but they are stupid expensive.
There are so many cheap AR15s around though, there are probably some crappy ones.  But a semi-auto tactical rifle with a 30 round clip is definitely not what I'd call a toy.

Using 3D printing is going to change the ballgame, when it is already such a mess.

I read an interesting observation about how modern culture deals with these incidents. Media spends too many hours sharing too little real information, filling the broadcast air time with subjective emotional observations. The longer term cool and calm rational response, after objective data has been collected and digested, does not occur in plain sight.  Even congressional hearings are generally scheduled during this early emotional phase, while they have likely been working on these very issues for years, with differing solutions in mind. Politicians prefers to ride heated emotional waves. Cold hard logic is too hard to manipulate.

That's true of everything. Think about 9/11 and re-read your paragraph. If the shooter had been mexican / an immigrant we all know the Republican / trump response would have been different.

 

[Matador]

In this case, the simplest answer really is the best.  Assault weapons need to be banned: period.  If you want to go hunting, a bolt action, 6 shot rifle is more than adequate at less than half the cost.

 

[dmp]

In this case, the simplest answer really is the best.  Assault weapons need to be banned: period.  If you want to go hunting, a bolt action, 6 shot rifle is more than adequate at less than half the cost.

How much are you willing to sacrifice for a sweeping gun ban?  For every violent shooter there are millions of law abiding hobbyists that want to be able to own guns. (yes including military / tactical guns) . 

Politician's love these wedge issues to distract people from the economic issues. There is a lot of common sense gun regulations that could be implemented that would have reasonable support. I think the Democratic position should shift.  Make it clear that law abiding hobbyists will be able to own guns but focus on preventing mass shootings and keeping guns out of the hands of people with mental health / criminal history.

It is not a perfect analogy, but think about DIY tube electronics. 0.001% of these hobbyists electrocute themselves. Should all DIY tube electronics be banned?

 

[kambo]

As I already shared I haven't shot anybody (yet), and don't expect to, but pity the fool who breaks into my house while I am home. Even that does not have to end violently unless the intruder is irrational, but why would a rational person break into my house while I'm home?  :

while back, one  of my friend, in the middle of a night (west hollywood)  waken up by a hand gun on his had!
some dude sneaked in to his house from an open window, and was asking for his cash stash in house!
if my friend had gun(s) too, story could end differently... thankfully no one hurt... he lost couple of hundred dollars, and installed an alarm system... he still doesnt own a gun.

 

[kambo]

Changing the rules as we go?

nope, i never stated the conditions  ;D

Only if they were green with giant teeth and horns and they were eating the apples as desert while finishing off the neighbors kids:

i would call NASA, it could be an alien 

Nobody implied giving away  a couple of apples. Squirrels and critters will destroy a crop in no time leaving nothing but destruction.

now days there are electronic solutions for keeping ur crop safe... we dont have to kill!

Trick question with derogatory multiple choice? So glad the options are better.

we always have better options, 

 

[JohnRoberts]

now days there are electronic solutions for keeping ur crop safe... we dont have to kill!

My neighbor has a half dozen cats and they occasionally kill a squirrel here and there but not enough.

I haven't gotten one apple from my tree in over two years.  This year the vast majority of my pecans had holes chewed in the shell then they were dropped, ruining them.

about two years ago a F'n squirrel chewed a hole in the side of my house to climb into my attic and set up housekeeping. I got rid of him after some effort, and sealed up his hole, but it wasn't easy.

I am not looking forward to killing squirrels, but my neighbor says he knows how to cook them and they taste good. Doesn't seem like enough meat to be worth the trouble, but it probably won't be that easy to kill them. 

we always have better options, 

Do what you want with "your" squirrels, some people think they are cute... I think they are just rats with bushy tails.

When they are eating almost all of my fruit, and trying to live inside my house it becomes personal.

JR

PS: A few years ago a squirrel screwed up my DSL signal strength by chewing through the insulation on wires up on a pole near my house.  They are pests with no redeeming qualities.

 

[Matador]

It is not a perfect analogy, but think about DIY tube electronics. 0.001% of these hobbyists electrocute themselves. Should all DIY tube electronics be banned?

Yes, understood, but I never said to ban all guns.

If 33,000 people were killed each year by soldering irons, do we really think there would be so much hand-wringing about legislation to help lower the rate?  Car death rates per capita plunged after seat belts became law in the mid 1970's, and civilization didn't crash down to the stone age as a result.

Do what you want with "your" squirrels, some people think they are cute... I think they are just rats with bushy tails.

100% agreed.  I wish I didn't have so many neighbors so close otherwise my 22 would be put to good use.

 

[kambo]

Do what you want with "your" squirrels, some people think they are cute... I think they are just rats with bushy tails.

i get the anger  ;D

 

[kambo]

Well, I'm not sure anyone said or implied anything about shooting kids that eat apples....(except you of course)..... So your solution is "electronic????? Tazer them? Play some music that is more positive??? Maybe an electric fence around the trees????

:I'm confused but, I digress....... I've got no solutions..... I see how this works :

do you now any acceptable reason  for someone to go out and start shooting around randomly!

 

[desol]

They are pests with no redeeming qualities.

It's impossible for something to exist in nature and not play a role. ie: I'm sure they accomplish more than meets the eye!


"For every violent shooter there are millions of law abiding hobbyists that want to be able to own guns. (yes including military / tactical guns)."


The police need handguns. The military need military weapons. Civilians need hunting weapons. No one is going to invade the united states anytime soon...or ever again.

A shotgun is 'by far' the most effective home defense weapon anyone needs, anyway. I live in Canada. I use high power Bear spray and have security.

The only use for handguns and military weaponry in society in terms of civilians, is ego. If anything has next to zero use in society, it is this type of weaponry. They do fit the bill however to facilitate excessive slaughter and violence.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Aren't AR15s exactly the same except they are missing the auto sear?  From what I know the bolt,etc are all full auto compatible and the one little dodad to make it full auto is illegal to make since the '80s. Put that in and it's a M16. You can still buy them (licensed and regulated) but they are stupid expensive.

I suspect back in the 70s(?) when the AR15 first came out they were the same exact weapon with the full automatic defeated. I see little reason to continue doing that now but maybe that makes them more valuable to the posers. The semi-auto capability relies upon the same gas recovery mechanics, so I expect the guts to be pretty similar.

My new air rifle is single load with pellets, but has a magazine for BBs that could improve my fire rate. I think the pellets might be more effective at knocking down my rats with bushy tails (while BBs claim higher muzzle velocity).  I will start with BBs for my target practice. I have already printed out a life sized picture of a squirrel. I can't even shoot pellets/BBs carelessly.
========
The primary reason to buy an AR-15 (IMO) is because it "looks" like a M-16...  The M-16 wasn't that good of a weapon. When I was in the army people who used both preferred the older M-14 as a superior weapon, but the M-16 was lighter which was a modest benefit during the 10 mile march out the rifle range. (I experienced feed jams at the rifle range which did not inspire confidence in the M-16)

There are so many cheap AR15s around though, there are probably some crappy ones.  But a semi-auto tactical rifle with a 30 round clip is definitely not what I'd call a toy.

The original M-16 clip held something like 18 rounds. Popular practice was to tape two clips together back to back so you could turn them around quickly. Full automatic fire rate with only 18 shots is not all that clever in an actual firefight.

What is the intended market for an AR-15?  I know why they make them, (because people buy them). I just can't relate to why. (but I don't play first person shooter video games).

Using 3D printing is going to change the ballgame, when it is already such a mess.

yup..

That's true of everything. Think about 9/11 and re-read your paragraph.

9/11 was an act of war, while not from a sovereign nation. Sad thing is it was their second attempt to blow up the trade center. Discounting that failed truck bomb warning cost over 3,000 innocent lives.

If the shooter had been mexican / an immigrant we all know the Republican / trump response would have been different.

I let you guys argue hypothetical team politics talking points.

Trump can be criticized already for things he actually said. No need to make up imaginary stuff and smear all republicans at the same time.

One or two republicans must be OK (I hope, but my judgement must be flawed by definition).  ;D

JR 

PS: The only claimed benefit I could find for squirrels is burying nuts (and fungus) and forgetting where they put them... They didn't bury any of my pecans that they chewed holes in and ruined.

 

[dmp]

Yes, understood, but I never said to ban all guns.

If 33,000 people were killed each year by soldering irons, do we really think there would be so much hand-wringing about legislation to help lower the rate?  Car death rates per capita plunged after seat belts became law in the mid 1970's, and civilization didn't crash down to the stone age as a result.

These 33,000 gun deaths consisted of 11,208 homicides & 21,175 suicides [from wikipedia]
Of the homicides, assault rifles are involved in 1-2% from quick web search. So IDEALLY then 100-200 deaths per year would be prevented by banning assault rifles (although there are more guns than people in the US so it would be tough to get rid of them all). And as I've said it would piss off millions of responsible gun hobbyists. The Republican propaganda machine has been incredibly successful on this issue and Democrats have played right into their hands and accomplished nothing for it.

Don't get me wrong - I have a 1.5 yr old kid and I realize how terrible school shootings are. But I am also terrified of a lot of other potential accident dangers - choking, drowning, auto accidents, falling, etc...

To put this in perspective - of 135,000 accidental deaths per year, about 31000 people die from falling, 5000 from poisoning, 3000 from fire & burns, 1000 from choking, 800 from drowning, 33,000 auto accidents.
Auto deaths peaked in the early '70s at 54,000 and declined to 45,000 in the '80s. They have continued to decline with improved safety technology.

I think technology could make a significant difference with guns if we allowed it to be applied to social media, gun ownership lists, etc.  but it would have to

 

[JohnRoberts]

Yes, understood, but I never said to ban all guns.

If 33,000 people were killed each year by soldering irons, do we really think there would be so much hand-wringing about legislation to help lower the rate?  Car death rates per capita plunged after seat belts became law in the mid 1970's, and civilization didn't crash down to the stone age as a result.

something like 1.3M  (oops bad data  more like only 40,000 so never mind) car accident deaths per year... and increasing right now, presumably because of texting.

We can't get self driving cars fast enough.

JR

100% agreed.  I wish I didn't have so many neighbors so close otherwise my 22 would be put to good use.

 

[DaveP]

Serious suggestion:
Get NRA members to take shifts guarding schools, their rights come with responsibilities.

Its one a week now?  They have work to do.

DaveP

 

[kambo]

Serious suggestion:
Get NRA members to take shifts guarding schools, their rights come with responsibilities.

Its one a week now?  They have work to do.

DaveP

i like the suggestion,
but, i wonder if they ever care !

 

[Gold]

The only thing it takes to be  an NRA member is the membership fee. I’m not sure I like that idea.