the sound of a power cable

[pucho812]

I know i know, I am about to open a big can of worms but I am going to do so anyway.  This is something that happened recently.

a mastering engineer I know has been going on about power cables. How he hears a difference and found these certain cables that sound amazing.  In talking with him we got onto my work and some of the studios I had wired up. So he asked me if I made power cables too. "Sure why not?"  Which  he followed it with "I would like to hear them." So I made 2 X power cables, 2 completely different brands, models of cable.

On the el cheapo side I used carol cable, which is basic power cable.  Nothing fancy going on here just 3 conductors at AWG 12. It's pretty flexible and  added green flexo sleve to give it the audiophile look.  I found some quality audiophile IEC ends off amazon for fairly inexpensive.  total build cost was about 30.(USD) for a 6 ft cable.

For the expensive wire, I went all out.  Belden 83803(12AWG 3 conductor with foil shield and braided shield. foil shield inbetween the 3 conductors and the braided shield), flexo sleve in orange, audiophile IEC ends and a ferrite on one end(the end going into the gear). total cost to make this was about 110.00(USD)  for 6 ft. 

Now the kicker, we have two cables green one and orange one.  We went to his mastering suit and listened. the test was the following music from the mastering desk into his speakers. they are passive and have a nice bryston powering them.  Anyway the engineer swears he hears a difference when swapping the power cables on the power amp. The green one sounded darker and that the orange one sounded better.  maybe my ears are not as refined, maybe I don't want to spend 110.00 bucks on every piece of gear in the room but it all sounded the same. I wonder if it effects the amp that much that maybe the amp has a problem?

 

[scott2000]

Now the kicker, we have two cables green one and orange one.  We went to his mastering suit and listened. the test was the following music from the mastering desk into his speakers. they are passive and have a nice bryston powering them.  Anyway the engineer swears he hears a difference when swapping the power cables on the power amp. The green one sounded darker and that the orange one sounded better.  maybe my ears are not as refined, maybe I don't want to spend 110.00 bucks on every piece of gear in the room but it all sounded the same. I wonder if it effects the amp that much that maybe the amp has a problem?

Just to get it out of the way, did he know which one was the more expensive one before  listening?

I'm guessing no.

 

[bluebird]

He does not hear a difference. You need to go back to this room. Let him sit and listen blind folded. You sit at the amp and flip a coin. If its heads use the green cable and if its tails use the orange one.  No matter which the coin lands on pull the cable and put it back in, even if its the same cable. Let him start the song and listen as long as he wants until he picks whether its the green or orange cable. Mark down on a piece of paper which one you used and which one he picked.

Do this at least 20 times. If he consistently picks the correct cable 19-or 20 times out of the 20 times he is hearing a difference. If any less I would say its random and he can't hear a difference.

Tell him I'll come to his studio and bet him $2000 he can't pass that test. I'll bring cash. I'm serious. PM me and I'll give you my number and we can set it up if he's game.

Ian

P.S. If he's scared to take the bet, tell him we can even use a standard shitty molded cable up against the orange one.

 

[Gold]

How was the test done?  Switch 10 times with him not knowing which one? Does he get it right every time? Or did you just believe him? I wouldn't take anyone's word for it.  The my ears are better than your ears  crowd is usually full of shit. What makes a good engineer is knowing what knob to turn when. Not hearing flea farts.

 

[Gold]

Half the reason I build my console was so I could do fair short term and long term listening tests. IIts really hard to set up fair tests. I  try to be ruthless with myself. I have nothing invested in hearing a difference  with everyting either. If I don't hear a difference I don't hear a difference.  One less thing to worry about.

Usually when I enquire how a test was done I have no idea how anyone could draw a conclusion one way or the other.

 

[iampoor1]

Do the test blindfolder, tell him you are switching the power cables, and keep them the same. If he "hears" differences, I think you just found the weakest part of the chain.  ;D

 

[pucho812]

Testing was done as follows
Played a recent master that was done there.  Switched cables back and forth without explaining any of them. Never even went over cost or construction.  At one point he switched so I could listen. I heard a difference too but that is because when he switched the cables,  he knocked the amp into bridged mono mode.

 

[Gold]

How many times did you switch? Did he get it right every time?  Brystons are built pretty well. I wouldn't expect any RF sneaking in through the power cable to make a difference.  I could see a shielded power cable makeing a difference in some situations.

Every time I've heard a cable  difference my reaction has been a firm 'meh'.  Passive speakers are one place where cable can make a difference  because passive crossovers are hard to drive. Cable properties can be revealed but it's nothing magical or very important most of the time.

 

[ubxf]

i believe that in a great mastering room with the best of everything,you might be able to tell the difference if one element in the chain is different. But by the time it reaches your phone or your car radio i doubt that you could tell

 

[abbey road d enfer]

Pucho, the stock-in-trade of a mastering engineer is his ability to hear things that ordinary humans can't. Don't try to objectify super-powers. Does anybody question Superman's flying abilities?
He's your customer, keep him happy, butter him up, he may help you sell a number of power cords.

 

[pucho812]

Pucho, the stock-in-trade of a mastering engineer is his ability to hear things that ordinary humans can't. Don't try to objectify super-powers. Does anybody question Superman's flying abilities?
He's your customer, keep him happy, butter him up, he may help you sell a number of power cords.

Of course. ;D  If only I was interested in making power cords.  I prefer to make power chords.... 8)

 

[Gold]

He's your customer, keep him happy, butter him up, he may help you sell a number of power cords.

I know you are being sarcastic and cynical but letting this kind of crap stand helps nothing except your wallet.

I pretty much have the best of everything in my mastering room room including the expensive shielded  belden power cable that I got from a forum member and I don't resort to that crap to sell my time.

 

[abbey road d enfer]

I know you are being sarcastic

I really was; I wouldn't do what I say. But I found nothing can deter believers, particularly when it serves them in impressing credulous people.

  I don't resort to that crap to sell my time.

I appreciate that; it's really a matter of them and us.

 

[Spiritworks]

Several years ago, at an AES show in New York, there was a guy showing "magical" power cords. They were built really well and looked awesome. I was chatting him up, and hiding my skepticism. He was going on and on and on about all the different copper, construction, etc.. This went on for ten or fifteen minutes or more when I finally told him I am a Master Electrician license holder for over twenty-five years, using just about every type of wire out there and even wiring up the machines that pull the extruded copper at a cable manufacturing facility.  His expression changed immediately, and he excused himself to go to the bathroom.
Just sayin'............

 

[scott2000]

i believe that in a great mastering room with the best of everything,you might be able to tell the difference if one element in the chain is different. But by the time it reaches your phone or your car radio i doubt that you could tell

I doubt you could tell the difference as soon as you move an inch from the listening position at his desk.......

 

[nielsk]

I have had so many laughs looking through the high end audio suppliers selling outlets and power cords for insane money and knowing there are folks out there who fall for it. It must be nice to have $ to throw away...
Of course, bad connections, corrosion, and EMF cause real problems, but  $3 decent shielded IEC cable solves all of that.
The aspect no one seems to mention in these discussions is the miles of cable and multiple connections from the power plant to the outlet... the effect of a few feet of power cable from the outlet to the piece of gear may be in the range of 0.00001 %?

What I have often done considering it to be a potential improvement in power cords is making them to length. Having several coils of wound up AC power cable in the racks seems like a potential source of EMF problems, any thoughts on this?

 

[Gold]

What I have often done considering it to be a potential improvement in power cords is making them to length. Having several coils of wound up AC power cable in the racks seems like a potential source of EMF problems, any thoughts on this?

All my cables are cut to length and dressed nicely. It's impossible to tell if it makes a huge difference but it couldn't hurt.  Some of, maybe most of the super super ears setups ive seen have been close to laughable in my book.

Once when I was starting out I was interning for a super duper ears guy. One day something behind a rack needed looking at. I stepped on a microphone cable on the floor to look behind the rack and he lost his shit. I was going to ruin the sound. Uhh huh. I was out of there.

 

[abbey road d enfer]

What I have often done considering it to be a potential improvement in power cords is making them to length. Having several coils of wound up AC power cable in the racks seems like a potential source of EMF problems, any thoughts on this?

That is very debatable. The potential effects of coiling power cables can be seriously mitigated by the way they are oriented respectively. It is quite possible that two cables coiled in opposite directions would have a humbucking effect. Anyway, in reasonably designed products, the tiny residual amounts of electrostatic and magnetic disturbances should be ignored. They are several orders of magnitude below those of a power transformer or an smps.

 

[abbey road d enfer]

Once when I was starting out I was interning for a super duper ears guy. One day something behind a rack needed looking at. I stepped on a microphone cable on the floor to look behind the rack and he lost his sh*t. I was going to ruin the sound. Uhh huh. I was out of there.

Classic tell-tale of an insecure person; they need an excuse and a scapegoat.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I haven't said this yet this week... "If the power cable makes an audible difference (in a controlled listening test) there is a problem with the product design."

JR