the sound of a power cable

[pucho812]

I haven't said this yet this week... "If the power cable makes an audible difference (in a controlled listening test) there is a problem with the product design."

JR

I would concur. unless it was a tube amp, although unlikely perhaps a power cable induces some sag?

 

[JohnRoberts]

I would concur. unless it was a tube amp, although unlikely perhaps a power cable induces some sag?

OK I guess it is possible to make a power cable so wimpy it doesn't work properly.

This is all nonsense to separate phools from their money...

JR

 

[abbey road d enfer]

I would concur. unless it was a tube amp, although unlikely perhaps a power cable induces some sag?

In high-power sound systems, power distribution counts, particularly with the new generation of amps that are capable of producing 20kW out of a 3600VA socket. That's short-term power indeed, as it's the new way of assessing amplifier power. When you have a 100m line to power a 200kW rig, sag is significant, particularly because it depends on instantaneous current, not rms. No fancy cable there, just plain old copper in large gauge.
For a small-scale install (such as a mastering studio), the losses in the power cable are negligible compared to those in the grid. Typically, the order of magnitude of the equivalent resistance of the connection from the grid to the house is 0.1 ohm. A standard IEC cable has a resistance of about 0.01 ohm.

 

[pucho812]

OK I guess it is possible to make a power cable so wimpy it doesn't work properly.

This is all nonsense to separate phools from their money...

JR

A phool and his money are soon parted.

I am wondering if it would be possible to devise an abx test with this.  For example say I had matched preamps with stepped atinuators. say I ran the same source to both preamps and the only difference would be the power cables then recorded the results in a daw.  Then abx the recorded sounds.

 

[Gold]

I am wondering if it would be possible to devise an abx test with this. 

It's possible but not practical. Switch 10x without him looking. Let him listen as long or as short a time as he wants to. Let him pick the music. Sometimes switch the cable sometimes don't. If he gets it right every time I'd believe him.

Dollars to donuts he doesn't take the challenge.

 

[iampoor1]

I am wondering if it would be possible to devise an abx test with this.  For example say I had matched preamps with stepped atinuators. say I ran the same source to both preamps and the only difference would be the power cables then recorded the results in a daw.  Then abx the recorded sounds.

I think the problem is that the differences in component tolerances between the two units would have significantly more impact on the sound quality. 

 

[JohnRoberts]

You could pretty easily perform an even better null test.

Take two identical skus.... null their outputs vs each other... First with the same line cords, then with whatever combination of line cords you want.

This will tell you empirically if they are different and how much they are different (it won't tell you which is different but that should be easy to guess).

Note: you need to get a deep null first with the same power cords... This may involve some tweaking.


JR

 

[Potato Cakes]

A former boss and mentor of mine told me a vaguely similar story regarding speaker cable at one of his first jobs. There were a number of audiophile guys raving about some super expensive speaker cable and repeating all the marketing nonsense, so for a test he stripped some common Romex cable and twisted the two jacketed conductors then told them it was a sample of some new high end cable. The audiophile guys blown away by the audio quality of what they believed to be the newest and greatest thing in speaker cable design. Needless to say, the whole ordeal was very entertaining for my boss.

The only time I can possibly conceive that a power cable would make a difference is if the piece of gear it was connected to drew much more current than the conductors in said cable could handle, making it hot and possibly tripping a breaker or causing a fire. At that point, the ability to replicate the tiniest nuances of detail in the sound would be of less importance.

Thanks!

Paul

 

[Potato Cakes]

Once when I was starting out I was interning for a super duper ears guy. One day something behind a rack needed looking at. I stepped on a microphone cable on the floor to look behind the rack and he lost his sh*t. I was going to ruin the sound. Uhh huh. I was out of there.

I have worked for and around those guys. They are the ones that make me scratch my head when they get high profile gigs and lauded as the Queen's standard of measurement for what a fader jockey should be.


Thanks!

Paul

 

[Gold]

You could pretty easily perform an even better null test.

Take two identical skus.... null their outputs vs each other... First with the same line cords, then with whatever combination of line cords you want.

This will tell you empirically if they are different and how much they are different (it won't tell you which is different but that should be easy to guess).

Note: you need to get a deep null first with the same power cords... This may involve some tweaking.


JR

He would never believe that test.  Just change the one thing that is in question and see if he can pick it. He will find some reason not to take the challenge. If he does he is a manly man.

 

[cyrano]

Back when stereo was new, I learned it's not about sound.

I must have been six when my dad got a few friends over to listen to the stereo setup. We'd had two speakers for years, but our radio was mono, the record player was mono. And all vinyl was mono.

So, that year, the player was changed for a stereo capable one, a second power amp was installed and some of the newest stereo vinyl was bought.

My dad's friends came over for a listening session. Some of them were music business guys, others were radio sound engineers. Everybody agreed stereo was wonderful...

The next day, I heard dad cursing. That was quite unusual, so I went to see if he had hit his thumb or so. And there he was, behind the stereo set.

It seems both speakers were still connected to the one amp...

 

[john12ax7]

I've never tried listening to power cords,  but maybe will give it a shot if I can borrow a fancy one.  I don't expect much difference but who knows.

I do actually hear differences in audio cords though,  even in low impedance applications where you technically shouldn't.

 

[pucho812]

I've never tried listening to power cords,  but maybe will give it a shot if I can borrow a fancy one.  I don't expect much difference but who knows.

I do actually hear differences in audio cords though,  even in low impedance applications where you technically shouldn't.

I hear the audio cord thing too, but that is because you can hear a difference between quad cable vs regular 2 conductor and ground cable.

If you are in so cal, I am willing to play the power cable game just to get others opinion.

 

[Gold]

I do actually hear differences in audio cords though,  even in low impedance applications where you technically shouldn't.

That is where you will hear it the most. Like with a dynamic microphone or a passive speaker or a phono connection.

 

[john12ax7]

I hear the audio cord thing too, but that is because you can hear a difference between quad cable vs regular 2 conductor and ground cable.

If you are in so cal, I am willing to play the power cable game just to get others opinion.

I'm in LA.

If the power cord is actually a thing where should the most difference be expected? A power amp where current is large? Or a preamp where gain is large?

 

[Andy Peters]

I haven't said this yet this week... "If the power cable makes an audible difference (in a controlled listening test) there is a problem with the product design."

Beat me to it.

 

[pucho812]

I'm in LA.

If the power cord is actually a thing where should the most difference be expected? A power amp where current is large? Or a preamp where gain is large?

Well when we tested at the mastering suit, we did it on a bryson power amp. so I am around this weekend if you up for it.  disclaimer, I am not saying I heard anything, I didn't, but someone who has the "golden ears" claims there was a difference.

 

[Gold]

Or a preamp where gain is large?

I'd say high gain would be the most obvious. Very low impedance like a power amp to passive speaker would be next. We don't see very high impedance in audio between devices but very high impedance areas inside a box are touchy.

 

[keefaz]

Best power cables have "isolated bass conductors"  ;D
Seriously, the number of buyers positive reviews for these things is frightening.
I wonder what is the reality behind this, at some point there must have been an experienced improvement somewhere.

 

[pucho812]

best power cables have arrows to tell the electrons which way to flow.