the sound of a power cable

[JohnRoberts]

Beat me to it.

Nah I just waste more time here than you, but it seems that despite our caution, the beat goes on..... :

Back in the '80s I wrote a magazine column about this poop called "Audio Mythology"  and I must admit that back then the purveyors of this phoolishness didn't even try to sell funny line cords. Maybe the new snake oil salesmen are more creative than the old ones, or maybe the modern customers are just dumber, I lean toward the latter.  8)

JR

PS: Stuff like this is why I gravitated toward live sound reinforcement. It's harder to BS an auditorium full of listeners. In small groups they can be hypnotized into drinking the kool aid du jour.

@ Pucho  invite a salesman for that crepitation to come to your listening party and have him bring the beer  :

 

[abbey road d enfer]

where should the most difference be expected? A power amp where current is large? Or a preamp where gain is large?

A preamp has moderate and almost perfectly constant current draw, so the possible effects of mains distro impedance are minimum. OTOH, power amps have large and hugely variable current demand. The effects of line impedance on power amps are well known and documented.
http://www.powersoft-audio.com/en/technologies/pfc-switch-mode-power-supply
http://sound.whsites.net/lamps/pfc.html#ned

 

[iampoor1]

I think his room may be tainted with some discordant morphic messages due to barcode radiation

http://www.pwbelectronics.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/PWB-New-Morphic-Message-Label.pdf
http://www.machinadynamica.com/ (Scroll down to Morphic Message Foils, its right above the 160$ Walkman CD player)  ;D

 

[rock soderstrom]

I think his room may be tainted with some discordant morphic messages due to barcode radiation

http://www.pwbelectronics.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/PWB-New-Morphic-Message-Label.pdf
http://www.machinadynamica.com/ (Scroll down to Morphic Message Foils, its right above the 160$ Walkman CD player)  ;D

Barcode radiation! ;D

 

[pucho812]

I bet you I could squeeze a few hundred more for these power cables if I use this ;D

http://www.pwbelectronics.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/PWB-Special-One-Drop-Liquid.pdf

 

[abbey road d enfer]

I bet you I could squeeze a few hundred more for these power cables if I use this ;D

Aaah, but you have to use transparent copper wire for it to be really effective...

 

[Gold]

Don't forget to say transmission line and skin effect.  Smart people say that and it's really important for cables. Especially at audio frequencies. And doubly important at mains frequency.

 

[scott2000]

A phool and his money are soon parted.

I am wondering if it would be possible to devise an abx test with this.  For example say I had matched preamps with stepped atinuators. say I ran the same source to both preamps and the only difference would be the power cables then recorded the results in a daw.  Then abx the recorded sounds.

You could Just record both like you mentioned...same gear, different power cables........

....Splice a bunch of clips together in the daw, noting which one is which at the time markers... let others try to tell you where the switches happen.....

or upload 20 clips ,label them, and have others tell you which one is which......

or just upload the two different clips and see if anyone hears a difference between one or the other....

(Just  play the two tracks  in the daw at the same time , mute one so the other is the only one playing through speakers, then keep pressing solo on the muted one to toggle between the two rapidly ........... with your eyes closed................ after you shuffle/click the solo button a bunch of times to lose count of which was which.....with your eyes closed)

It would be a waste of time imo..... Even if someone could tell, what's the value of this party trick anyway?

This is stuff they do on other forums though.....

 

[JohnRoberts]

Don't forget to say transmission line and skin effect.  Smart people say that and it's really important for cables. Especially at audio frequencies. And doubly important at mains frequency.

Blinding them with science?

Skin effect actually affects mains frequency signals but is not significant for modest currents and small diameter wire... Large power distribution cables often use the less conductive (but stronger) steel wire cores because current flows mostly in the wire's outer wrap that uses more conductive metals (aluminum?).

Transmission line effects at audio frequency are a non-issue due to their very long wavelengths. Digital and video signals have much shorter wavelengths so transmission line effects need to be considered for them. 

JR

 

[Heikki]

Here in Finland we have probably the biggest cable bullshit ever.

They claim that their extension chord decreases power consumption, increases signal to noise ratio, decreases distortion, plus many more bullshit claims. Of course there's no data to back up their claims even though it would be very easy to measure if any of their lies were true. Extension chord that decreases power consumption of equipment would be very valuable anywhere but for some reason their cables are only sold in hifi/audiophile stores.

 

[Speedskater]

...
Back in the '80s I wrote a magazine column about this poop called "Audio Mythology"  and I must admit that back then the purveyors of this phoolishness didn't even try to sell funny line cords. Maybe the new snake oil salesmen are more creative than the old ones, or maybe the modern customers are just dumber, I lean toward the latter.
JR
..........................................................

See page 19.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwidj9ej0fXWAhUU-WMKHXdTCiAQFggxMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.americanradiohistory.com%2FArchive-Recording-Engineer%2F80s%2FRecording-1983-12.pdf&usg=AOvVaw36Ft4rETQ14XKusC3pnTBO
or
issue 12-1983
http://www.americanradiohistory.com/Recording_Engineer_Producer.htm

 

[JohnRoberts]

See page 19.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwidj9ej0fXWAhUU-WMKHXdTCiAQFggxMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.americanradiohistory.com%2FArchive-Recording-Engineer%2F80s%2FRecording-1983-12.pdf&usg=AOvVaw36Ft4rETQ14XKusC3pnTBO
or
issue 12-1983
http://www.americanradiohistory.com/Recording_Engineer_Producer.htm

Yup that's the ticket.

I actually wrote one column about funny speaker wire, but no funny line cords back then as far as I recall. 

JR

 

[Speedskater]

Looking further I see that the John Roberts "Audio Mythology" column was a regular thing. Sometimes with long responses in the Letters section. Do you remember how many columns you wrote?

 

[JohnRoberts]

Looking further I see that the John Roberts "Audio Mythology" column was a regular thing. Sometimes with long responses in the Letters section. Do you remember how many columns you wrote?

Yes it was a regular column in every issue (6 a year) for a few years in the early '80s. I would occasionally step on industry toes, like the time I described the aural exciter as a distortion box.    The offended would write angry letters to the editor, then I would get to respond  :... I never lost one of those arguments. (never argue with people who buy ink by the barrel and always get the last word).  8)

Shortly after I went to work for Peavey, the magazine wanted to expand to 12 a year. Peavey was OK with me still writing the column but I was a little more conflicted about being completely objective working for a large company than before as a tiny company guy... Then the problem of carving out a day or two every month to write the article...  As a small company working for myself it was easy to drop everything to write. While working at Peavey the phone kept ringing and I couldn't tell Hartley to just call me back in a couple days. So I stopped writing the column. 

Funny true story... a well known industry guy (Dennis Bohn  from Rane)  though I was an old fart who stopped writing because I died, and gave me a short eulogy in his article as he ripped off my audio mythology theme. I looked him up at the next trade show and introduced my very alive self to him.  ;D

Shortly after I stopped writing it the magazine failed, But for the record I did not kill  them (I think)  :  I stopped writing the column  in 85 so it ran a couple years before that. 

JR

 

[pucho812]

JR that is great information there. 

 

[JohnRoberts]

JR that is great information there. 

Thank you, I enjoyed the process... I would start each column thinking I knew everything about some narrow subject, and by the end I invariably learned new things that I didn't know that I didn't know. : Just the process of writing it out clearly, forced me to refine my understanding.

It is part of the human condition for us to "think" we understand more than we do, so writing things out forces communication between our left brain and right brain, and reveals weakly founded ASSumptions.  (Maybe this should be in the "question everything" thread?)

JR

 

[pucho812]

back on this topic.


ferrit cores.  Two off the shelf molded  IEC cables that come with a gear piece when you buy it.  One had a ferret core added  just for fun. Again people swearing there is a difference.  ;D

 

[abbey road d enfer]

back on this topic.


ferrit cores.  Two off the shelf molded  IEC cables that come with a gear piece when you buy it.  One had a ferret core added  just for fun. Again people swearing there is a difference.  ;D

There's a justification for ferrite cores on power cables, but certainly not related to "how it sounds".

 

[Speedskater]

Well  ferrite cores are about reducing interference.  Interference may cause background noise.  And some audiophiles enjoy a little added background noise.  It seems to add definition or sparkle.

I think that what the listener perceives with this cable is that at low levels, the sound is fattened and made more coherent-sounding by the dominant second-harmonic distortion. In addition, the presence of background noise cannot be dismissed, as there is some evidence that introducing small amounts of random noise results in a sound that is preferred by listeners. At higher signal levels, transients are accompanied by bursts of higher harmonics. However, these subside as quickly as they appeared. The overall effect is to render the system sound as being more vivid,

John Atkinson
Stereophile magazine
August 2005

 

[JohnRoberts]

As I probably already said in this thread (last year), if you can hear a difference changing power cords that suggests a marginal product design. Adding filtering to a mains cord, would always be better done inside the product, if needed.

JR