The Vaccine

[Script]

'And in Spain, where the death toll has topped 50,000, the health minister said the government would set up a registry of people who refuse to be vaccinated, and share it with other European Union member states.'

Or vaccinate rest of own willing population first -- either way this makes a lot of sense.

Once through, donate to other countries, maybe less-industrialized and less affluent ones.

And not to forget, kindly ask the receivers whether they would be so nice as to cover the medical bill of the anti-vaccine acolytes in return, those who passed on the vaccine yet got seriously ill -- only voluntary though 

 

[crazydoc]

I have been watching for VP elect Harris to get vaccinated, she has openly said that everybody "should" while declining to get jabbed herself at the same time as President elect Biden when they became available. One rationalization was to secure continuity of their administration in case of some adverse reaction to the vaccine (?).

[update- VP elect Harris got her covid jab today 12/29... thank you, late is better than never. /update]

She got it later (not "late") for exactly the reason you noted above, as has been common knowledge. She also got the Moderna vaccine, whereas Biden got the Pfizer, probably for the same reason.

 

[ruffrecords]

The Oxford vaccine has been approved in the UK. 100 million doses on order. Roll out begins on 4th Jan. Does not need the extreme low storage temperature the Pfizer one does so it should be a lot easy to make it widely available.

Cheers

Ian

 

[JohnRoberts]

She got it later (not "late") for exactly the reason you noted above, as has been common knowledge. She also got the Moderna vaccine, whereas Biden got the Pfizer, probably for the same reason.

OK "later" is better than never...

Since you are our resident medical expert what is you opinion about the monoclonal antibody therapy granted emergency approval and often sitting in hospitals not being fully used?

The "common knowledge" explanation for this lack of enthusiasm is a desire for more testing (it is available now under an emergency authorization because of the pandemic).

We still have people dying from Covid (including one 40 YO legislator who died recently). Since this treatment is applied by infusion, the well known side affects from infusions can occur (this treatment is more commonly used against cancer, of course using a different strain of antigens).

JR 

 

[crazydoc]

I am no expert, but if I were diagnosed with covid, I'd certainly want the monoclonal antibody treatment ASAP. POTUS, Christie and Sleepy Ben got the treatment and did well - I would guess in large part due to it. An infusion means it is given in the blood stream directly (through a vein), rather than orally, subcutaneously, intramuscularly, or per rectum (heaven forbid), and although there are very occasional serious reactions, better to know and treat it right away in a medical setting, rather than a delay via the other routes.

I think one of the problems with ascertaining its effectiveness has been that it has usually been given late in the course of the illness, when the shit has already hit the fan. I think (no data I've seen but ongoing) that it makes much more sense to give it early when antibodies can destroy the virus before it does significant damage. But then, most people will do OK anyway, so the decision to give it probably rests on risk factors for developing significant disease versus potential downside events, which might be decreasing the effectiveness of a later vaccine, and hindering the body's own immune response to a subsequent exposure to the virus..

Another problem in when and whom to give it is that it's expensive and in relatively short supply, but of course no problem for the rich and famous.  :

For further reading:
https://www.health.state.mn.us/diseases/coronavirus/hcp/bamfaq.html#vaccine

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-treatments-antibod/u-s-hospitals-try-mab-squads-infusion-sites-to-boost-use-of-covid-19-antibody-drugs-idUSKBN28Q2WW

 

[JohnRoberts]

I am no expert, but if I were diagnosed with covid, I'd certainly want the monoclonal antibody treatment ASAP. POTUS, Christie and Sleepy Ben got the treatment and did well - I would guess in large part due to it. An infusion means it is given in the blood stream directly (through a vein), rather than orally, subcutaneously, intramuscularly, or per rectum (heaven forbid), and although there are very occasional serious reactions, better to know and treat it right away in a medical setting, rather than a delay via the other routes.

that seems to be the case.

I think one of the problems with ascertaining its effectiveness has been that it has usually been given late in the course of the illness, when the sh*t has already hit the fan. I think (no data I've seen but ongoing) that it makes much more sense to give it early when antibodies can destroy the virus before it does significant damage. But then, most people will do OK anyway, so the decision to give it probably rests on risk factors for developing significant disease versus potential downside events, which might be decreasing the effectiveness of a later vaccine, and hindering the body's own immune response to a subsequent exposure to the virus..

The advice I've seen is use the monoclonal antibody early in the course of treatment to completely avoid hospitalization.

Another problem in when and whom to give it is that it's expensive and in relatively short supply, but of course no problem for the rich and famous.  :

Right now there are free doses sitting unused in hospitals, while I suspect there will be charges for the infusion procedure.  After these free initial doses run out, medicare will not pay for this, so it will be expensive then, but that is not part of the math explaining non adoption right now.  Of course big Pharma want another cash cow but right now I would like to see every tool available used to effect less hospitalizations to relieve pressure on that limited resource. 

JR

For further reading:
https://www.health.state.mn.us/diseases/coronavirus/hcp/bamfaq.html#vaccine

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-treatments-antibod/u-s-hospitals-try-mab-squads-infusion-sites-to-boost-use-of-covid-19-antibody-drugs-idUSKBN28Q2WW

 

[analag]

The virus has updated itself for 2021...Covid 19.1.0 is now more contagious than 19.0

 

[crazydoc]

Right now there are free doses sitting unused in hospitals, while I suspect there will be charges for the infusion procedure.  After these free initial doses run out, medicare will not pay for this, so it will be expensive then, but that is not part of the math explaining non adoption right now.

Medical professionals are currently reluctant to use this early in the disease (and patients reluctant to accept it) because of the unknown downstream effects on subsequent exposure to the virus, and on vaccine effectiveness, and that there are probably legal implications toward them for using it. As time goes by, as more data comes in on the monoclonal antibody's effect on subsequent immunity, we will see more clearly the risks versus benefits of early treatment.  I think this is why they are holding off on giving the vaccine to POTUS.

The EUA requires that fact sheets that provide important information about using bamlanivimab in treating COVID-19 be made available to health care providers and to patients and caregivers, including dosing instructions, potential side effects and drug interactions.
https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavirus-covid-19-update-fda-authorizes-monoclonal-antibody-treatment-covid-19

From the patient information fact sheets:

These are not all the possible side effects of bamlanivimab. Not a lot of people have been given  bamlanivimab. Serious and unexpected side effects may happen. Bamlanivimab is still being studied so it is possible that all of the risks are not known at this time. It is possible that bamlanivimab could interfere with your body's own ability to fight off a future infection of SARS-CoV-2. Similarly, bamlanivimab may reduce your body’s immune response to a vaccine for SARS-CoV-2. Specific studies have not been conducted to address these possible risks. Talk to your healthcare provider if you have  any questions. (Puts the onus on the doctor, of course.)
https://www.fda.gov/media/143604/download

From the healthcare provider information fact sheets:

2.  As the healthcare provider, communicate to your patient or parent/caregiver, as age appropriate, information consistent with the “Fact Sheet for Patients, Parents and Caregivers” prior to the patient receiving bamlanivimab. Healthcare providers (to the extent practicable given the circumstances of the emergency) must document in the patient’s medical record that the patient/caregiver has been: a. Given the “Fact Sheet for Patients, Parents and Caregivers”, b. Informed of alternatives to receiving authorized bamlanivimab, and c.  Informed that bamlanivimab is an unapproved drug that is authorized for use under this Emergency Use Authorization.
https://www.fda.gov/media/143603/download

 

[user 37518]

The virus has updated itself for 2021...Covid 19.1.0 is now more contagious than 19.0

I read it is more contagious but less lethal, which is not necessarily a good thing, since the geneticists talking about that said that a more lethal virus tends to die off quicker, just for the fact that it kills people quicker and has less time to spread. However, they did mention that the current vaccines will also work on the new virus.

 

[Script]

Can't find a source where it says it's less lethal. Only media reports that say it is not more lethal, meaning lethality is the same !?

 

[crazydoc]

I got a shot today - feel OK.

 

[Squeaky]

If that is indeed a photo of you crazydoc then your appearance certainly reflects your moniker!

 

[ruffrecords]

If that is indeed a photo of you crazydoc then your appearance certainly reflects your moniker!

I hope I have that much hair afterwards. 

Cheers

Ian

 

[Winston OBoogie]

I love it Doc!  I had a  beard like yours until a week ago when I clipped it off on a whim.  I miss it now. 
Good health sir

 

[Tubetec]

Ive been sporting a 'Grizzly Adams' style beard for a few years now too . You get used to the funny comments , 'Will you ever shave off the beard , your like something from the old testament'  ;D

As far as vaccine roll out goes were succeeding in making a botch job of it here in Ireland, vaccinations are being recorded in pen and paper by staff at carehomes/hospitals due to lack of an IT system fit for purpose, it makes a complete mockery of the science if we cant tell who has and who hasnt had the vaccine or be able to record adverse reactions . Nothing new really , theres evidence going back as far as the 1930's that shows unethical and unapproved testing of vaccines in mother and baby homes in Ireland. 9000 people are unaccounted for but media are unwilling to address the issue of vaccine testing because they moment they do million dollar advertising contracts with big pharma are in jeopardy. It really is the worst possible backdrop you could have for the situation we find ourselves in now . Government ,Church and State  conspired and made vast profits from illegal testing on the most vulnerable in our society, now our economic future relies on chemical, pharmaceutical and IT ,their untouchable.

 

[JohnRoberts]

J&J has announced successful phase I & II testing on their one jab vaccine that does not require deep refrigeration and will be available in large quantity after phase III testing and approval.

JR

 

[ruffrecords]

Ive been sporting a 'Grizzly Adams' style beard for a few years now too . You get used to the funny comments , 'Will you ever shave off the beard , your like something from the old testament'  ;D

I was thinking more of the hair on top. I have the beard - at least that bit of hair keeps growing - but my receding hair line is nearly over the horizon. I was hoping the jab might reverse that trend.

Cheers

Ian

 

[crazydoc]

My shot was at the local health dept - I called them last week and got on the >75 list, and they called Monday with an appt for yesterday. All done by paper and pen since we're in the boonies and modern technology is lagging a little here (this is the "trumpiest county" in CA -75% vote for him). Filled out the paperwork with about 15 people in a 10x15 foot room (but all wearing masks - mandatory), taken to another room filled with partitioned booths for individuals, got the shot, 15 min wait to see if I'd die, then reappointment in 4 weeks for the second dose. In all took about 45 minutes, plus 1 hour round trip drive. I'm satisfied.

Glad you liked the pic - that was about 15 years ago. I see I was wearing my glasses with the DIY thumb tack nose pads. I bought a webcam a couple of months ago for zooming with the kids - here's the first still  I've used it for, taken a few minutes ago - still crazy after all these years. That's my favorite drug on the shirt. The bass in back is my practice one I made from an old table and floorboards about 10 years ago.

 

[JohnRoberts]

My shot was at the local health dept - I called them last week and got on the >75 list, and they called Monday with an appt for yesterday. All done by paper and pen since we're in the boonies and modern technology is lagging a little here (this is the "trumpiest county" in CA -75% vote for him). Filled out the paperwork with about 15 people in a 10x15 foot room (but all wearing masks - mandatory), taken to another room filled with partitioned booths for individuals, got the shot, 15 min wait to see if I'd die, then reappointment in 4 weeks for the second dose. In all took about 45 minutes, plus 1 hour round trip drive. I'm satisfied.

Glad you liked the pic - that was about 15 years ago. I see I was wearing my glasses with the DIY thumb tack nose pads. I bought a webcam a couple of months ago for zooming with the kids - here's the first still  I've used it for, taken a few minutes ago - still crazy after all these years. That's my favorite drug on the shirt. The bass in back is my practice one I made from an old table and floorboards about 10 years ago.

Congrats on getting your jab... About the only time in history when being older than me was a benefit.
===

Another adjustment to federal vaccine distribution is to ration less doses to the states not effectively getting their vaccine doses into arms, and more doses to the more effective states.

Future vaccines will be less temperature sensitive so at less risk of complete loss when the states delay and/or mishandle it.

On Jan 12th Health and Human services secretary Azar urged states to start immunizing people 65 years and older.

===

I just checked my local situation. The state dept of health website said that all doses for January have already been allocated, but will be making new appointments for vaccinations after new supplies arrive, expected mid February.

JR

 

[Tubetec]

Luckily I have a full head of hair up top still , not sure if its dna or the low stress life Ive lived  , maybe a combination of both.

I never tried the Sandoz variety LSD, Psylocybin found in the liberty cap mushroom here I have on a few occasions.

I find this excuse for not recording vaccinations on a computer based system at best suspicious , if we cant cross reference who's already found to be positive for covid against the list of people that are to get the vax were wasting it on people , not only that but there are some suggestions vaxing people who already have immunity through infection could actually be causing new variants to emerge . Ive heard some opinions that say in the event of a catastrophic fail of a vaccine we wont even have the evidence to figure out what went wrong or hold the makers to account if their science turns out bad. Aside from keeping a 'plausible deniabillity' card up their slieve , big pharma wont easily leave go of the goose that lays the golden egg thats for sure. I'd be very interested to hear if this pen and paper recording of vaccinations is happening anywhere else.