This is F'ing Lame (neve content inside)
- Thread starter soundguy
- Start date
Help Support GroupDIY Audio Forum:
I'm with ya Dave.
If they want to create a cool new compressor, why don't they call it the Vintech Effin Cool compressor.
Instead, they say this is a Neve compressor, and use the Neve Model number, but say "it's all Class A".
Which, if you didn't hang around here, and didn't know better, means it's a Neve, only it's Class A, so it must be better, right? :roll:
When I popped the top on a 1272, I was kinda pissed, as on the front panel it says "Made from Neve 1272 components"
You would expect to see Neve boards in there, would you not? Well, you don't. Just the same chips and transformers.
ju
If they want to create a cool new compressor, why don't they call it the Vintech Effin Cool compressor.
Instead, they say this is a Neve compressor, and use the Neve Model number, but say "it's all Class A".
Which, if you didn't hang around here, and didn't know better, means it's a Neve, only it's Class A, so it must be better, right? :roll:
When I popped the top on a 1272, I was kinda pissed, as on the front panel it says "Made from Neve 1272 components"
You would expect to see Neve boards in there, would you not? Well, you don't. Just the same chips and transformers.
ju
ijr
I was hoping you would show up. I had an interesting talk with a lab member yesterday. Your above design came up in the discussion.
It is kind of sad but your design this thread realy made me think about what I am doing with microphones. I have 3 different microphone designs in my head now and I don't think I am going to share any of it any more because it is not in my best interest..
I was hoping you would show up. I had an interesting talk with a lab member yesterday. Your above design came up in the discussion.
It is kind of sad but your design this thread realy made me think about what I am doing with microphones. I have 3 different microphone designs in my head now and I don't think I am going to share any of it any more because it is not in my best interest..
Bryson
Well-known member
[quote author="fum"]
When I popped the top on a 1272, I was kinda pissed, as on the front panel it says "Made from Neve 1272 components"
[/quote]
That's kinda wierd. That's what Averill has on his f.p., and with the old ones it was true, but on his new clone/replicas I'm not so sure it is true. I guess I'll have to check the real definition of "components" (there must be a loophole)
It should read:
Made from Neve circuit design, similar components, and different layout.
And what about layout vs. sonics? Hmm...new topic maybe...
When I popped the top on a 1272, I was kinda pissed, as on the front panel it says "Made from Neve 1272 components"
[/quote]
That's kinda wierd. That's what Averill has on his f.p., and with the old ones it was true, but on his new clone/replicas I'm not so sure it is true. I guess I'll have to check the real definition of "components" (there must be a loophole)
It should read:
Made from Neve circuit design, similar components, and different layout.
And what about layout vs. sonics? Hmm...new topic maybe...
[quote author="Gus"]ijr
It is kind of sad but your design this thread realy made me think about what I am doing with microphones. I have 3 different microphone designs in my head now and I don't think I am going to share any of it any more because it is not in my best interest..[/quote]
Yea if your ambition is to make a product to sell then giving away your secrets may not be advantageuos.
It is kind of sad but your design this thread realy made me think about what I am doing with microphones. I have 3 different microphone designs in my head now and I don't think I am going to share any of it any more because it is not in my best interest..[/quote]
Yea if your ambition is to make a product to sell then giving away your secrets may not be advantageuos.
[quote author="CJ"]Sheesh, our whole capitalist economy is based on cut-throat-rip-off-copycat-steal from the other guy tactics. This has been going on for centuries. So whats the big deal? Free enterprise, folks. And if it gets out of hand, the lawyers step in. Look at vacuum tubes. How many different firms made the 12AX7?[/quote]
Isn't this a little different though, didn't Vintech start making Neve clones because the original product had ceased to be manufactured for 20 years and the demand was so huge that people were charging outrageous prices. At that point the copycats are just keeping the used market in check. It's similar to how the vintage car part industry gets going, the Big three no longer make the stuff, or even an after market car part.(It allows us little guys to fix our cars) Even songs are stolen little creatures language is stolen, Michael Jackson dance moves etc... There's a bunch of people who used the numbers 990 after their product's op-amp name to capitalize on Dean Jensen/John Hardy's work and reputation and plugin compatibility. I know the people at Jensen were fairly annoyed by it. And John Hardy copied the API pin layout to take advantage of a huge op amp replacement market built upon API's success. I guess just do like Monster cable has done and sue your grandparents.
Isn't this a little different though, didn't Vintech start making Neve clones because the original product had ceased to be manufactured for 20 years and the demand was so huge that people were charging outrageous prices. At that point the copycats are just keeping the used market in check. It's similar to how the vintage car part industry gets going, the Big three no longer make the stuff, or even an after market car part.(It allows us little guys to fix our cars) Even songs are stolen little creatures language is stolen, Michael Jackson dance moves etc... There's a bunch of people who used the numbers 990 after their product's op-amp name to capitalize on Dean Jensen/John Hardy's work and reputation and plugin compatibility. I know the people at Jensen were fairly annoyed by it. And John Hardy copied the API pin layout to take advantage of a huge op amp replacement market built upon API's success. I guess just do like Monster cable has done and sue your grandparents.
Kev
Well-known member
[quote author="Gus"] It is kind of sad but your design this thread really made me think ...[/quote]
Gus,
there is always a way
sometimes one just needs to be a little cryptic
it's all good ... :thumb:
This could be interesting to watch
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=22070
take note of the people and what they say
Gus,
there is always a way
sometimes one just needs to be a little cryptic
it's all good ... :thumb:
This could be interesting to watch
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=22070
take note of the people and what they say
After a long bit of holding my tongue on this topic, for all the manufacturers lurking here who do not contribute anything what so ever and then turn around and incorporate ideas discussed here into your commercial designs Id like to offer a big fat and personal FUCK YOU to you. I dont care how out of line that is or how poorly that reflects upon me professionally or otherwise. Some of us know you are reading and shame on you for being so selfish as to not give a damn thing back to this place. SHAME.
I recently purchased a vintech X73i. I wanted to see what they did with the layout and the price was really good on the box from my usual dealer, so I gave it a shot. I want to be fair so Im not gonna say it sounds terrible but the EQ really doesnt sound good at all. While I thought I was getting a "deal" I got exactly what I paid for and it really just comes down to the caps in the EQ which sounds like the nasaliest bit of harshness out there, certainly not "neve like" at all.
After reading that gearslutz thread, Vintech should have enough shame to deal with based on the fact that they copied the front panel look of the box alone, forget what they did or didnt copy inside the box. If the X73i is any indication of how "neve like" their boxes sound, I wouldnt expect this box to sound anything like a 33609 or IJR's 33609 which clearly predates the existence of this vintech thing.
As someone who has entertained the idea of bringing a commercial product to the marketplace, I certainly have some empathy for how difficult it can be to make a profit in this business and that is one of the primary reasons I have to date not gone ahead with a production run. That said, whats it gonna take for some of these people to grow a little backbone? This kind of behaviour is really spineless. We here may know how adding a different output amplifier changes things, but the rest of the world most assuredly does not. They see a box that looks the same, is called the same and for the not electronically sophisticated (whats that, more than %70 of the market at least) it IS the same, but we've got a manufacturer saying, oh no, its different, even though we went WELL out of our way to make a box that LOOKS identical and happens to have a similar name, we can ASSURE you that the box actually is different. Please.
This is lame, spineless and frankly insulting explanation for anyone that knows better. Lame. Lame. Lame. Lame. Lame.
dave
I recently purchased a vintech X73i. I wanted to see what they did with the layout and the price was really good on the box from my usual dealer, so I gave it a shot. I want to be fair so Im not gonna say it sounds terrible but the EQ really doesnt sound good at all. While I thought I was getting a "deal" I got exactly what I paid for and it really just comes down to the caps in the EQ which sounds like the nasaliest bit of harshness out there, certainly not "neve like" at all.
After reading that gearslutz thread, Vintech should have enough shame to deal with based on the fact that they copied the front panel look of the box alone, forget what they did or didnt copy inside the box. If the X73i is any indication of how "neve like" their boxes sound, I wouldnt expect this box to sound anything like a 33609 or IJR's 33609 which clearly predates the existence of this vintech thing.
As someone who has entertained the idea of bringing a commercial product to the marketplace, I certainly have some empathy for how difficult it can be to make a profit in this business and that is one of the primary reasons I have to date not gone ahead with a production run. That said, whats it gonna take for some of these people to grow a little backbone? This kind of behaviour is really spineless. We here may know how adding a different output amplifier changes things, but the rest of the world most assuredly does not. They see a box that looks the same, is called the same and for the not electronically sophisticated (whats that, more than %70 of the market at least) it IS the same, but we've got a manufacturer saying, oh no, its different, even though we went WELL out of our way to make a box that LOOKS identical and happens to have a similar name, we can ASSURE you that the box actually is different. Please.
This is lame, spineless and frankly insulting explanation for anyone that knows better. Lame. Lame. Lame. Lame. Lame.
dave
peterc
Well-known member
I have to agree wholeheartedly with Dave here.
The front panel is almost exactly the same..... That'll confuse most people immediately & give the wrong impression.
Peter
The front panel is almost exactly the same..... That'll confuse most people immediately & give the wrong impression.
Peter
clintrubber
Well-known member
from Soundguy:
Did you lift the lid ? Just curious, does this box use an output-TX ?
From their info I got the impression the 'economy'-version did without one, only input-iron.
Edit: Please excuse me for this post here above - I just threw it in earlier today but it's totally inappropriate and totally off-topic in this thread here.
Thumbs up for those other posts. /Edit
Peter
Did you lift the lid ? Just curious, does this box use an output-TX ?
From their info I got the impression the 'economy'-version did without one, only input-iron.
Edit: Please excuse me for this post here above - I just threw it in earlier today but it's totally inappropriate and totally off-topic in this thread here.
Thumbs up for those other posts. /Edit
Peter
Kev
Well-known member
:thumb:
correct
Now that there is a commercial clone perhaps it is time that Igor and I and the others can put our heads together with a project at the Factory.
As I said before ... there is always a way.
be patient people :green:
correct
Now that there is a commercial clone perhaps it is time that Igor and I and the others can put our heads together with a project at the Factory.
As I said before ... there is always a way.
be patient people :green:
NewYorkDave
Well-known member
Dave, you rock.
Amen.
Amen.
Tekay
Well-known member
I've noticed a strange thing on the Chandler compressor! Where the heck is the ratio control :?
They just forget it 
)
As allways, you check pcb's, schem, even PSpice stuff & etc,
then after makin' full prod. line you have a lot of fun
to discover...some "misc stuff" to be fixed (or not))
But don't care. People who deal with marketing allways will
find the reasons for these stupid "why" and "where"...
I've seen at this forum one good thing like
"they sell you the whole world, but give you an attlas for money you pay"
Good, eh?
:grin:
)As allways, you check pcb's, schem, even PSpice stuff & etc,
then after makin' full prod. line you have a lot of fun
to discover...some "misc stuff" to be fixed (or not
))But don't care. People who deal with marketing allways will
find the reasons for these stupid "why" and "where"...
I've seen at this forum one good thing like
"they sell you the whole world, but give you an attlas for money you pay"
Good, eh?
:grin:
BTW, Kev, what the sh*t, well, I killed some of my time to make not very
bad NeveComp thing, it is workin' like charm, well, I enjoy sometimes passing thru it some drum tracks...but as well, I killed some time to make these f***n' pdf's, write where these f@**n wires goes and so on,
and there was some blabla here about volontiers, to built at least one another unit to proove it works not only in Israel, then what? all finished with another blabla but someone make some $ in shadow of old phreakin comp while we have it as newerwillfinisheddiyblablaproject??
Volunteeers!!!!! :razz:
bad NeveComp thing, it is workin' like charm, well, I enjoy sometimes passing thru it some drum tracks...but as well, I killed some time to make these f***n' pdf's, write where these f@**n wires goes and so on,
and there was some blabla here about volontiers, to built at least one another unit to proove it works not only in Israel, then what? all finished with another blabla but someone make some $ in shadow of old phreakin comp while we have it as newerwillfinisheddiyblablaproject??
Volunteeers!!!!! :razz:
Kev
Well-known member
yep
:green:
Igor ... tell us what you really think ... :wink:
I did make a main PCB and but can't tell you which version it is.
as I don't have BA283 cards I kinda lost steam
My list is long and general demands are high but I assure you, it is on my list of things to do.
However I could be talked into posting it to ? ... someone we trust ?
PCB drilling may be incomplete.
:green:
Igor ... tell us what you really think ... :wink:
I did make a main PCB and but can't tell you which version it is.
as I don't have BA283 cards I kinda lost steam
My list is long and general demands are high but I assure you, it is on my list of things to do.
However I could be talked into posting it to ? ... someone we trust ?
PCB drilling may be incomplete.
Consul
Well-known member
Something in what Dave said has me thinking...
I want everyone here to be assured that I will not profit from any designs presented here, as I decided I am not crazy enough to even want to try to enter the pro audio hardware biz (no offense to Joe, Dan, or Fred :wink: ). Hell, I'm having a hard enough time building things for myself.
However, what I do build will be used on recordings that I do eventually plan to sell. I hope this is considered okay by current standards.
What do I hope to build that is an original design of a Lab member?
Well, NYDave's high-gain tube preamp thingy looks pretty cool. And of course, there is the G7 and G9 by our illustrious Jakob. I also thought I would mess with PRR's 12AU7 vari-mu compressor once I get more experience.
Just so you know, you have nothing to fear from me. :guinness:
I want everyone here to be assured that I will not profit from any designs presented here, as I decided I am not crazy enough to even want to try to enter the pro audio hardware biz (no offense to Joe, Dan, or Fred :wink: ). Hell, I'm having a hard enough time building things for myself.
However, what I do build will be used on recordings that I do eventually plan to sell. I hope this is considered okay by current standards.
What do I hope to build that is an original design of a Lab member?
Well, NYDave's high-gain tube preamp thingy looks pretty cool. And of course, there is the G7 and G9 by our illustrious Jakob. I also thought I would mess with PRR's 12AU7 vari-mu compressor once I get more experience.
Just so you know, you have nothing to fear from me. :guinness:
Similar threads
