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JohnRoberts

JohnRoberts

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The tourist/adventurers now missing in the north Atlantic are likely in some deep doodoo. Their dive target the Titanic wreckage was 2 1/2 miles deep.

The Navy "DSRV" Deep Submergence Rescue Vehicle project I worked on back in the 60s, (My first technician gig), was only rated for 5,000 feet depth. According to a web search the deepest rescue ever made so far was down 1,600 feet.

Reportedly that tourist sub is supposed to rise to the surface by itself in case of problems but the surface ship has lost contact with them so nobody knows their status.

Let's all hope for a happy outcome.

JR
 
never disturb a grave. It’s asking for trouble.Shipwrecks like graves should not be disturbed. There are some exceptions like the Edmund Fitzgerald where they replaced the ships bell and now ring that bell every November 10th in remembrance for all souls onboard.
 
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pucho812 said:
never disturb a grave. It’s asking for trouble.Shipwrecks like graves should not be disturbed. There are some exceptions like the Edmund Fitzgerald where they replaced the ships bell and now ring that bell every November 10th in remembrance for all souls onboard.
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Totally agree.
 
It's kind of annoying how much press coverage these idiots are getting. There were obvious safety issues long known beforehand, experts pointing those out were fired, warnings from third parties ignored... It's an emotional story, but for humanity as a whole completely irrelevant.
 
living sounds said:
It's kind of annoying how much press coverage these idiots are getting. There were obvious safety issues long known beforehand, experts pointing those out were fired, warnings from third parties ignored... It's an emotional story, but for humanity as a whole completely irrelevant.
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No different than Chernobyl. The guy who pointed out safety issues, was fired.
 
living sounds said:
It's kind of annoying how much press coverage these idiots are getting. There were obvious safety issues long known beforehand, experts pointing those out were fired, warnings from third parties ignored... It's an emotional story, but for humanity as a whole completely irrelevant.
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What are you talking about? Can you be a little bit more compassionate? I know that the press is doing it just for the story, but to say it is completely irrelevant for humanity is not true. I am not aware of any updates, but the people in there will probably suffocate to death or drown, or already have. That is something truly horrific.

I am sure that if a dog were in there, some people would probably be outraged and protesting. The main reason why humanity as a whole is so messed up is because they have completely discarded the value of a human life.
 
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user 37518 said:
What are you talking about? Can you be a little bit more compassionate? I know that the press is doing it just for the story, but to say it is completely irrelevant for humanity is not true. I am not aware of any updates, but the people in there will probably suffocate to death or drown, or already have. That is something truly horrific.

I am sure that if a dog were in there, some people would probably be having an outrage and protesting. The main reason why humanity as a whole is so messed up is because they have completely discarded the value of a human life.
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More than 500 people just died on a refugee boat trying to reach the EU, fleeing from wars (some of them started by the US), climate change and global inequality. This actually has massive global political implications.

Do you at least see the irony in pleading for more compassion for reckless millionaires?
 
living sounds said:
It's kind of annoying how much press coverage these idiots are getting. There were obvious safety issues long known beforehand, experts pointing those out were fired, warnings from third parties ignored... It's an emotional story, but for humanity as a whole completely irrelevant.
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This reminds me of Morton Thiekol and O rings. The ones getting fired for wanting to make it safer can at least say they tried.
 
So sad to hear of the debris field. Now the legal vultures really will move in. RIP for the crew and passengers.
 
I believe the owner of the business was on board. The cost of the recovery effort will likely consume any residual wealth, but it sounds like a budget operation.

Other businesses in the same field were critical of their operation, but I am sure we will hear all about this in the review.

JR
 
living sounds said:
More than 500 people just died on a refugee boat trying to reach the EU, fleeing from wars (some of them started by the US), climate change and global inequality. This actually has massive global political implications.
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In principal I am there with you. I am your first generation immigrant in this country.

Before US started the Irak war, Saddam was in power. Was there a social equality in Irak ? Now that they are US free, is there social equality? No.

When US was in Afghanistan there was actually a good degree of social equality and a lot of progress was being made. Now that US has left, is there a social equality? No.

I think we should move away from this US bashing.

As for the social inequality in, say, Africa,, it goes way back and Europe has a lot of blood in its hands.

living sounds said:
Do you at least see the irony in pleading for more compassion for reckless millionaires?
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living sounds said:
It's kind of annoying how much press coverage these idiots are getting. There were obvious safety issues long known beforehand, experts pointing those out were fired, warnings from third parties ignored... It's an emotional story, but for humanity as a whole completely irrelevant.
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Here, what I believe, is a legitimate discussion.

Do we know how many of those 500 were actually escaping war, how many were trying economic migration and how many were even criminals?

I feel for those who were escaping war. I truly do.

But should I be compassionate for those who were trying economic migration? What is the difference between the risk they took and the one these "irrelevant" millionaires took?

As for the economic migrants, is it morally acceptable to pay criminal gangs to get to a country which has to deal with the criminal enterprise that they keep feeding? Do I have to feel compassion for them over these "irrelevant" millionaires?

I know this is going to irritate you and some folks too, but we have to get a real perspective on this migration issue and stop this notion of "bleeding hearts".

This sub thing is no less tragic than a refugee boat sinking. That 17 year old boy (who turned out to be a student in one of the universities here) losing his life is no less tragic than a one who was seeking economic migration. For all we know, his dad might have been a migrant who did well for himself.
 
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sahib said:
In principal I am there with you. I am your first generation immigrant in this country.

Before US started the Irak war, Saddam was in power. Was there a social equality in Irak ? Now that they are US free, is there social equality? No.

When US was in Afghanistan there was actually a good degree of social equality and a lot of progress was being made. Now that US has left, is there a social equality? No.

I think we should move away from this US bashing.

As for the social inequality in, say, Africa,, it goes way back and Europe has a lot of blood in its hands.





Here, what I believe, is a legitimate discussion.

Do we know how many of those 500 were actually escaping war, how many were trying economic migration and how many were even criminals?

I feel for those who were escaping war. I truly do.

But should I be compassionate for those who were trying economic migration? What is the difference between the risk they took and the one these horrible millionaires took?

As for the economic migrants, is it morally acceptable to pay criminal gangs to get to a country which has to deal with the criminal enterprise that they keep feeding? Do I have to feel compassion for them over these horrible millionaires?

I know this is going to irritate you and some folks too, but we have to get a real perspective on this migration issue and stop this notion of "bleeding hearts".

This sub thing is no less tragic than a refugee boat sinking. That 17 year old boy (who turned out to be a student in one of the universities here) losing his life is no less tragic than a one who was seeking economic migration. For all we know, his dad might have been a migrant who did well for himself.
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I only refered to the US regarding some wars. The Iraq war was a criminal invasion of a sovereign country under false pretenses. Europe is bearing the brunt of of refugees this has created.

And yes, too much immigration can create massive internal problems in the receiving country. Please have a look at the book in this thread for some deep scientific insights on the issue:

https://groupdiy.com/threads/heres-what-is-really-going-on-in-the-world.84240/
My point here was the dislike for the highlighting of emotional personal tragedy vs. the real problems. To quote Terry Pratchett "Personal is not the same as important".
 
I just hope no one’s actually calling the millionaires, horrible. Obviously, there seems to be no reason to. Some will argue about it of the CEO, but obviously he felt it was safe-enough to be in it himself. He put his body where his money was; which says a lot to me!

RIP to them all.
 
living sounds said:
I only refered to the US regarding some wars. The Iraq war was a criminal invasion of a sovereign country under false pretenses. Europe is bearing the brunt of of refugees this has created.
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Refugees from Irak is just a small portion of the story.

living sounds said:
And yes, too much immigration can create massive internal problems in the receiving country. Please have a look at the book in this thread for some deep scientific insights on the issue:
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Thank you, but I do not need to read a book about it. I already know and having first hand experience of it.
living sounds said:
My point here was the dislike for the highlighting of emotional personal tragedy vs. the real problems. To quote Terry Pratchett "Personal is not the same as important".
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If your quotation is correct, then, with all due respect, your Terry Pratchett is/was talking b***ocks. And if you are falling for that then there is not much I can say.
 
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