Titantic...

[soliloqueen]

They said that no submarines have been made out of carbon fiber, since it hasn't been tested at such high pressures.

They said that, but the truth is even worse. It has been tested, and it is well-known that carbon fiber performs poorly under these sorts of compressive loads.

 

[soliloqueen]

Did the company ever do unmanned testing?

I would be shocked if they had. I don't think I could stress upon you enough how little possibility the design had of functioning correctly. There is absolutely no merit to it. It's like they just made something they thought sounded cool. Making a safe submersible following the principles of this design is not just challenging, it's impossible. It's like trying to make a bullet out of cheese. A submarine made out of this material surviving to these depths would require, literally, different laws of physics to happen.

 

[pucho812]

I would be shocked if they had. I don't think I could stress upon you enough how little possibility the design had of functioning correctly. There is absolutely no merit to it. It's like they just made something they thought sounded cool. Making a safe submersible following the principles of this design is not just challenging, it's impossible. It's like trying to make a bullet out of cheese. A submarine made out of this material surviving to these depths would require, literally, different laws of physics to happen.

I get all that. I even saw a new story on the company from a few years ago.
Some of the things on there could have come directly from Amazon. In the news piece the sub had issues at 37 feet below the waves and they had to return to surface.

But even still you would think they would have tested it unmanned at least once.

 

[user 37518]

Another problem is that subs that go that deep tend to be spherical so the pressure is evenly distributed, this one was pill-shaped in order to allow for 5 passengers.

 

[user 37518]

Did the company ever do unmanned testing?

As far as I know they didn't. And they fired an engineer who expressed concerns regarding the safety of the sub. Also, apparently, the crystal dome was rated "safe" for depths less than half of what the sub intended to go to. I mean, this was clearly an "I will surely die and don't care" project created by the founder.

 

[JohnRoberts]

That vessel reportedly made three tourist dives down to the Titanic wreckage, once a year since 2021.

Also reportedly they made over 50 test dives, including to similar Titanic depth.


JR

 

[user 37518]

That vessel reportedly made three tourist dives down to the Titanic wreckage, once a year since 2021.

Also reportedly they made over 50 test dives, including to similar Titanic depth.


JR

Odd that the Titanic had a name in honor of the Titans who used to defy the gods, and this sub had the same name; both lie now at the bottom of the sea and in the same spot. Also similar is the degree of arrogance on both the sub and the Titanic designers, who didn't believe that their vessels could sink, and IIRC, they both died in their ships.

 

[pucho812]

I normally do not partake in the 3 major news networks, I also do not usually pay attention to anyone from Hollywood
But I have to say I caught James Cameron on cnn talking about this tragic event as he has done deep sea submersibles in his personal life. I was surprised at how knowledgeable he was and how he was able to explain it in a manor that we all could understand. He also said things that the other interviews did not.
Also don’t let the cutoff title fool you its fundamental flaws…. Not fun.

 

[user 37518]

I normally do not partake in the 3 major news networks, I also do not usually pay attention to anyone from Hollywood
But I have to say I caught James Cameron on cnn talking about this tragic event as he has done deep sea submersibles in his personal life. I was surprised at how knowledgeable he was and how he was able to explain it in a manor that we all could understand. He also said things that the other interviews did not.
Also don’t let the cutoff title fool you its fundamental flaws…. Not fun.

So from what he is saying, it may have not been so sudden in a sense that they probably did get a warning, tried to abort, and suddenly imploded. Horrific.

 

[pucho812]

So from what he is saying, it may have not been so sudden in a sense that they probably did get a warning, tried to abort, and suddenly imploded. Horrific.

Yes

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Here's how you accumulate fracture damage to your fancy CF hull. You let YT "personalities" drive it around in shallow water. Note what happens at :57s.

https://teddit.net/vids/cs5lhz9dvq7b1.mp4

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Also this has surfaced. Reported in more than one place. Appears to be genuine.

 

[user 37518]

Also this has surfaced. Reported in more than one place. Appears to be genuine.

View attachment 110679

Seems to me like the typical Messiah attitude of "I am making progress for mankind and you fools don't understand it". So typical amongst today's intelligentia, although "intelligentia" is a stretch of the word to describe such people.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Seems to me like the typical Messiah attitude of "I am making progress for mankind and you fools don't understand it". So typical amongst today's intelligentia, although "intelligentia" is a stretch of the word to describe such people.

Hubrista or Egotitian, maybe. I've worked with a few people like this in my career. Thankfully not on anything that put humans directly in danger. Looks like that 50-something white guy knew WTF he was talking about, Stockton.

 

[user 37518]

Hubrista or Egotitian, maybe. I've worked with a few people like this in my career. Thankfully not on anything that put humans directly in danger. Looks like that 50-something white guy knew WTF he was talking about, Stockton.

"...but that is the nature of innovation"

i.e., all are stupid but me; they'll see....

 

[pucho812]

I get his nature of innovation comment.
How often did legends face naysayers in their journey? It won’t work, you can’t and so on. However it’s 2023 we know so much about materials, construction, etc. that now days we people say it won’t work, you can’t, and so on, it’s usually from a position of safety concerns.

 

[user 37518]

I get his nature of innovation comment.
How often did legends face naysayers in their journey? It won’t work, you can’t and so on. However it’s 2023 we know so much about materials, construction, etc. that now days we people say it won’t work, you can’t, and so on, it’s usually from a position of safety concerns.

do you happen to know a good reason why they used CF and not steel?

 

[Tubetec]

They probably saved weight by using carbon fibre ,
As far as I heard this craft basically had a weight attached to sink it , once they got down to depth they were supposed to drop the weight , maybe that didnt happen and they hit the ocean floor .

 

[user 37518]

They probably saved weight by using carbon fibre ,
As far as I heard this craft basically had a weight attached to sink it , once they got down to depth they were supposed to drop the weight , maybe that didnt happen and they hit the ocean floor .

What James Cameron said is that they dropped the weights, which implies an abort operation.

 

[pucho812]

do you happen to know a good reason why they used CF and not steel?

I do not. I am not a mechanical engineer.
I can guess and say cost maybe? Inexperience? Any number of reasons all which could have been prevented.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I can't read minds as well as others here but carbon fiber is a sexy high tech material embraced in multiple high profile applications as a substitute for steel/aluminum where price is no object. The high strength to light weight makes it attractive for race cars, aircraft, aerospace, etc. My brother who has done some racing says that carbon fiber body panels tend to shatter when crashed. Volvo and BMW are already using carbon fiber in some premium models.

Submarines typically use high strength steel, and/or titanium. IIRC the nose piece on that submersible was made from titanium. Perhaps they should have made the entire pressure vessel from titanium also.. Carbon fiber was cheaper.

I recall back last century visiting a major sound company in SoCal who was making their own loud speaker cabinets with carbon fiber. The light weight was a feature, and the rigidness made a tighter box good for bass response and less sound re-radiation from cabinet flexing.

JR

 

[user 37518]

I can't read minds as well as others here but carbon fiber is a sexy high tech material embraced in multiple high profile applications as a substitute for steel/aluminum where price is no object. The high strength to light weight makes it attractive for race cars, aircraft, aerospace, etc. My brother who has done some racing says that carbon fiber body panels tend to shatter when crashed. Volvo and BMW are already using carbon fiber in some premium models.

Submarines typically use high strength steel, and/or titanium. IIRC the nose piece on that submersible was made from titanium. Perhaps they should have made the entire pressure vessel from titanium also.. Carbon fiber was cheaper.

I recall back last century visiting a major sound company in SoCal who was making their own loud speaker cabinets with carbon fiber. The light weight was a feature, and the rigidness made a tighter box good for bass response and less sound re-radiation from cabinet flexing.

JR

Around 20 years ago when carbon fiber started to become popular in archery, I remember a guy at the field where I used to go to. He had some carbon fiber arrows, at one point, he fired one and the whole thing shattered into pieces when released, the pieces got into his eyes, face, hands, everywhere; I believe he had to undergo surgery. Since then, every time someone says something is made out of carbon fiber, I am really cautions. I believe that the "good" carbon fiber arrows are carbon fiber over aluminum, the ones made purely of carbon fiber are really dangerous.

 

[analag]

Imagine being bolted shut in something you can't stand up in. Like a coffin. Then dropping like a rock in the ocean for over two hours.

 

[living sounds]

They are spending millions to recover the 5 bodies of the reckless u-boat tourists. Meanwhile, the relatives of most of the 500+ refugees that died last week in the shipwreck (no women and children made it out alive) will never be able to bury their loved ones...

 

[JohnRoberts]

They are spending millions to recover the 5 bodies of the reckless u-boat tourists. Meanwhile, the relatives of most of the 500+ refugees that died last week in the shipwreck (no women and children made it out alive) will never be able to bury their loved ones...

Yet people keep coming.
===
I am not aware of an active recovery effort, for the Titan passengers. It is unclear whether there will even be intact bodies to recover. Only one ROV (remote operated vehicle) made it down to the debris fields and it can't lift stuff to the surface.

There was worldwide support for the rescue effort that arguably could have been abandoned days sooner. Ships are already leaving the area, and US Navy has stopped moving their recovery winch system (FADOSS) toward the ocean wreckage site.

JR

 

[AnalogPackrat]

PV = nRT. When the hull failed the gasses inside were rapidly (within milliseconds) compressed to 400x atmospheric pressure. Temperature inside reached thousands of degrees F before the frigid water enveloped and flushed out what little was left. Imagine being inside a fire piston or a diesel cylinder only at an order of magnitude higher pressure. Not pretty. There are no recoverable remains. Anyone with knowledge of this kind of accident knows that.

 

[user 37518]

PV = nRT. When the hull failed the gasses inside were rapidly (within milliseconds) compressed to 400x atmospheric pressure. Temperature inside reached thousands of degrees F before the frigid water enveloped and flushed out what little was left. Imagine being inside a fire piston or a diesel cylinder only at an order of magnitude higher pressure. Not pretty. There are no recoverable remains. Anyone with knowledge of this kind of accident knows that.

Yes, you are right, I listened to an interview and the guy said the same thing regarding the bodies: "There is nothing to recover"

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Video from kid who was on previous aborted trip days before.

 

[pucho812]

the waiver passengers signed in order to go onboard has come out.

https://nypost.com/2023/06/23/read-the-death-waiver-doomed-titanic-sub-tourists-signed/amp/

 

[JohnRoberts]

I heard a mention on the news that the FBI is investigating this with assistance from the Canadian government.

Unclear what is left to investigate.

JR