True RMS vs averaging DMM

[sodderboy]

True RMS to 100kHz, dbm conversion (accurate to two decimal places on 2V scale), f meter accurate up to 200KHz IIRC, mhos (not used much as I have a Biddle micro ohm meter on the bench). From tape to console to DAW to OB it hits all the necessary marks in one meter.
I'd love to try something "much better". Even though I am not working around dams much, durability is important. The Key is nice and. . . orange, I guess. Get out your calc or phone to boost something 3.5 dBm. For temperature I use a Radio Shack DMM, but that takes six AA's so does not get much use.
I like to buy 8060A's from hobbyists that didn't smoke, and hardly used them, so the plastic is not yellow.
Mike

 

[Gold]

The 8060A has everything an audio tech needs. I have a Fluke 287 which is near current top of the line. The 287 while it has all the features of the 8060A and more is mot as user friendly. It is physically large and is menu driven. When climbing behind and under equipment a small footprint and button per function are valuable qualities.

 

[warpie]

I'd love to try something "much better".

Brymen 869s ?

 

[user 37518]

True RMS to 100kHz, dbm conversion (accurate to two decimal places on 2V scale), f meter accurate up to 200KHz IIRC, mhos (not used much as I have a Biddle micro ohm meter on the bench). From tape to console to DAW to OB it hits all the necessary marks in one meter.
I'd love to try something "much better". Even though I am not working around dams much, durability is important. The Key is nice and. . . orange, I guess. Get out your calc or phone to boost something 3.5 dBm. For temperature I use a Radio Shack DMM, but that takes six AA's so does not get much use.
I like to buy 8060A's from hobbyists that didn't smoke, and hardly used them, so the plastic is not yellow.
Mike

All what you have mentioned is present in good quality meters of today, and much more.

A 8060a is no longer up to spec (unless you send it to a cal lab), the interconnects are no longer 100% reliable, plus, there is the added costs due to the fact that it is now considered vintage equipment.

Now, if you already own one like you do and it suits your needs, ok, you can make the case that it is all that you need, but calling it "the best studio DMM" and claiming something in the likes of accepting no substitutes, is basing your decision on feelings rather than facts. It amazes me the nostalgia effect that audio enthusiasts exhibit, not only towards old instruments or old rack gear, but even also to old multimeters. I am sometimes guilty of this.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I still miss my old simpson 260....

JR

 

[user 37518]

I still miss my old simpson 260....

JR

I own one, I eventually gave up on trying to make it work accurately and its stored in the bin, I even sent it to refurbishment and calibration, it was one of those "feelings" based decisions that I mentioned in my previous post, but there are some scales in which it doesn't work accurately anymore. I bought a new SANWA analog VOM, very nice meters, not as nice looking as the 260 that's for sure.

 

[Gold]

All what you have mentioned is present in good quality meters of today, and much more.

A 8060a is no longer up to spec (unless you send it to a cal lab), the interconnects are no longer 100% reliable, plus, there is the added costs due to the fact that it is now considered vintage equipment.

I have checked a few old 8060A's against my AP P1 and my Fluke 287 and all the 8060A's have matched ACV/dB to within a few hundredths of a dB. Plenty good. I keep an 8060A in the studio as my reference level calibration standard.

Like I said in the previous post the advantages of the 8060A are more in the practical than the specs. If you are not an audio field technician the advantages may not mean much to you.

 

[sodderboy]

All what you have mentioned is present in good quality meters of today, and much more.

A 8060a is no longer up to spec (unless you send it to a cal lab), the interconnects are no longer 100% reliable, plus, there is the added costs due to the fact that it is now considered vintage equipment.

Now, if you already own one like you do and it suits your needs, ok, you can make the case that it is all that you need, but calling it "the best studio DMM" and claiming something in the likes of accepting no substitutes, is basing your decision on feelings rather than facts. It amazes me the nostalgia effect that audio enthusiasts exhibit, not only towards old instruments or old rack gear, but even also to old multimeters. I am sometimes guilty of this.

It's not nostalgia. My experience with the rotating dial meters early on was not spectacular, as I found the contacts to the PCB getting intermittent. I'll check the specs of the Bryman and Keysight as it would be revolutionary to find something better. The 8060A is push-push-push and go.
You are correct re the probes. The Fluke probes are not professional. I have used Probe Master Inc. for decades also. They can gently pierce insulation, and my dermis quite often. A P-Master kit and a Neutrik TTY wired to Canare L4E5C/ Pomona banana are my Fluke accessories. Total battle axe.
In my RF lab I have to cal a 8060A every year for ISO 9001:2015 compliance so I check my 5+ studio meters every year to it and they are closer than rock n' roll. The tech who checks calibration to NIST does not have to touch it 5+ years going.
Until I find something better, it is THE BEST for me. I'm horrible with a calculator and logs n' stuff, and always lose paper log tables. Push-push-push-go. "Do you want 'Tools cal'ed to tenths or hundredths of a dB?"
Sorry John, I took my Simpson 260 off the ISO calibration list this January. It joined the "FOR REFERENCE ONLY" family. I just didn't use it. I kept it for decoration.
Mike

 

[JohnRoberts]

I am nostalgic about the old 260 because I learned how to troubleshoot transistor junctions using the low ohms scale...

I agree these days more useful as eye candy, not unlike mechanical VU meters.

JR

 

[Gold]

Fluke always has the lowest latency continuity beep too. A very important quality if you are hunting and pecking a large number of contacts. The Bryman has a distinct lag. I have an Agilent 1252? (It's the county cabin meter). I like it but it has menu's and the beep isn't as fast as a fluke.

 

[user 37518]

It's not nostalgia. My experience with the rotating dial meters early on was not spectacular, as I found the contacts to the PCB getting intermittent. I'll check the specs of the Bryman and Keysight as it would be revolutionary to find something better. The 8060A is push-push-push and go.

I guess it depends on what you mean revolutionary better, for instance, my U1282a is rated to withstand a 3 meter drop, it has an IP67 rating which means it can be fully submerged into water down to 1m in depth and it is dust-tight, can the 8060a withstand that? Gold says that the 8060a is a field meter, then it should be able to withstand abuse, I doubt it can withstand more abuse than the U1282a.

Now, regarding accuracy the U1282a has 60,000 counts, 0.025% DC accuracy and 0.3% AC accuracy. What about backlight? the U1282a has an orange backlight, does the 8060a even has a backlight? how good is it? Safety wise the U1282a is Cat IV rated, what about the 8060a?

Also, a quick search on eBay showed that a used calibrated 8060a is around $265 USD.

If you have a very well preserved meter and your own cal lab and NIST technician like you do, good, if not, the 8060a is a thing of the past.

 

[user 37518]

Fluke always has the lowest latency continuity beep too. A very important quality if you are hunting and pecking a large number of contacts. The Bryman has a distinct lag. I have an Agilent 1252? (It's the county cabin meter). I like it but it has menu's and the beep isn't as fast as a fluke.

That is true, my Keysights have fast continuity but some have a very short latch/scratchy sound. However, the fastest of all and best continuity beep in my opinion is that of my Tektronix DMM916.

 

[user 37518]

I am nostalgic about the old 260 because I learned how to troubleshoot transistor junctions using the low ohms scale...

I agree these days more useful as eye candy, not unlike mechanical VU meters.

JR

That is both a benefit and a disadvantage, IIRC, the higher scales of the 260 can output more than 10V, something that can perfectly reverse bias junctions.

 

[moamps]

..... my U1282a...

May I ask how satisfied you are with the battery life? I use the Fluke 287 and a couple of the simpler 112 models, and I always get the impression that the battery in the 112 lasts forever compared to the ones in the 287.

 

[warpie]

Fluke always has the lowest latency continuity beep too. A very important quality if you are hunting and pecking a large number of contacts. The Bryman has a distinct lag. I have an Agilent 1252? (It's the county cabin meter). I like it but it has menu's and the beep isn't as fast as a fluke.

Interesting.

I find the Brymen to be rather fast in continuity beep.

Have you watched this video?



There's a continuity comparison anong other stuff.

What bags me a bit is the loud beep which is great for field work but it oftens makes me jump in my quiet room ☺

 

[user 37518]

May I ask how satisfied you are with the battery life? I use the Fluke 287 and a couple of the simpler 112 models, and I always get the impression that the battery in the 112 lasts forever compared to the ones in the 287.

Its ok, nothing compared to my U1253A which basically lasts less than a regular smart phone.

 

[sodderboy]

I guess it depends on what you mean revolutionary better, for instance, my U1282a is rated to withstand a 3 meter drop, it has an IP67 rating which means it can be fully submerged into water down to 1m in depth and it is dust-tight, can the 8060a withstand that? Gold says that the 8060a is a field meter, then it should be able to withstand abuse, I doubt it can withstand more abuse than the U1282a.

I simply do not need that durability as I am working in recording studios, that are inside of roofed, windowed, and door'd structures that are not dirty beyond some weed residue, sloughed skin cells, textile fiber (dust) and mouse skat. Save the occasional liquor spill. I am used to working in the dark, and have not needed a cool orange backlight yet.
If I were working outside on dams n' stuff I would certainly have a different opinion formed over decades of that type of work. Who needs to measure dbM on a dam anyway? Yeah, I tech some pool house studios, but the studio are far from any water, and the Fluke is well packed-away when I hit the jacuzzi. I need a comprehensive studio meter. I am not a "Lineman for the County".
The Flukes have been dropped enough in service, and have not suffered thus, prolly no more than 2 meters. They are happier on the bench gettin' it done like in the pic burning-in a A800 power supply. Not an extreme environmental sitch, save for the excessive heat generated by those supplies.

Testes great? Less filling? You like what you like.
Mike

 

[neil.johnson]

Regarding the 8060A, the original designer commented on EEVBlog: Old Fluke Multimeters - Page 1

Neil

 

[Tubetec]

The 187 is by far the most power hungry meter Ive owned , I usually replace the batteries every few months .
I believe the 77IV has now been discontinued by Fluke , replaced with the 170 series .
Settling time on the 187 on low AC ranges is longer than the 77IV ,but maybe thats due to the RMS .
Ive heard quite a few mentions of the 8060a from studio guys here , having the db scale is a huge benefit for checking audio gear quickly.

 

[Gold]

The Fluke 287 I have is power hungry. It takes a whole bunch of AA batteries too. It's one of the reasons I don't use it much. The best feature it has is being able to display two values simultaneously. You can look at Frequency and dBM. Good for making sure you are measuring the test signal and not hum. The 8060A has a hard on/off switch. Bad if you forget to turn it off but good in that you don't have to make sure the meter hasn't turned its self off while you weren't looking. The 8060A battery lasts a long time if you are careful about turning it off when not in use.