U47EF Oliver Archut version

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When cost isn't that critical, i don't mind "guilding the lily" as much as the next person, but on the other hand, i also prefer to keep things within reason. And/or to have good (or at least sane?) reasoning for whatever design choices i make šŸ˜

Throwing parts into a circuit willy-nilly, "just because", does not count as "good", nor "sane". Not in my book, anyway...
+1
 
Thank you all for your suggestions...
Love the internet :cool:
As far as fear of over-voltage on C5, you can put a 130 Volt Zener on the output of your B+ (in the supply) and that will act as an emergency brake, assuring that nothing over 130VDC EVER gets to your mic. This will be true even if the supply in powered on when no mic is hooked up, then you see the issue and plug in the mic...! The zener will not conduct during normal operation of the mic (so long as your supply is actually designed to deliver 120V into the mic). Therefore, there will be no zener noise to worry about. It's just an insurance policy and costs about 25 cents. C5 can then be sized for, say, 160V, or even less.

But, so long as you're reading this, might I suggest that you experiment with 200+ VDC on the plate resistor. I find that EF86/806S tubes sound better when driven harder. I run mine above 1mA, closer to 2mA. Neumann was not wrong to spec their U67 mics at 210V (yes, I realize that the U67 has a 150K plate resistor). The math will show you that they're moving more current through the EF86/806S than most great historic mics which use eith "real" triodes or triode-strapped pentodes. My U47 clone uses 200V and a triode-strapped pentode tube, with only 75K as a plate resistor. I think you'd find its sound to be excellent.
 
As far as fear of over-voltage on C5, you can put a 130 Volt Zener on the output of your B+ (in the supply) and that will act as an emergency brake, assuring that nothing over 130VDC EVER gets to your mic. This will be true even if the supply in powered on when no mic is hooked up, then you see the issue and plug in the mic...! The zener will not conduct during normal operation of the mic (so long as your supply is actually designed to deliver 120V into the mic). Therefore, there will be no zener noise to worry about. It's just an insurance policy and costs about 25 cents. C5 can then be sized for, say, 160V, or even less.

But, so long as you're reading this, might I suggest that you experiment with 200+ VDC on the plate resistor. I find that EF86/806S tubes sound better when driven harder. I run mine above 1mA, closer to 2mA. Neumann was not wrong to spec their U67 mics at 210V (yes, I realize that the U67 has a 150K plate resistor). The math will show you that they're moving more current through the EF86/806S than most great historic mics which use eith "real" triodes or triode-strapped pentodes. My U47 clone uses 200V and a triode-strapped pentode tube, with only 75K as a plate resistor. I think you'd find its sound to be excellent.
Thank you for your suggestion with the emergency brake zener for the PSU, but I just ordered some fancy 400V Zn MKPs hand selected by the seller to 0,1-0,4% tolerances with way lower ESR than the popular ERO caps. Let's see how they play.

1690186694738.png

Your concept of driving the tube harder with higher voltages sounds intriguing. And you even lowered the plate resistor, right? Could you maybe even post your schematics/chosen part values, that would be just awesome as I am still pretty new to the game. Would I have to switch parts or simply crank up the gas?
 
Just finished the version 2 PSU and used a much smaller choke, but has 2 x100mH 0.3A EPCOS B82731, PSU is silent, no hum.
Just need to change the heater resistors as can only get 4.87v at the minute.
changed the resistors to 100M and 60M and the C3 cap to 0.47uf/630v as well as the transformer to a neutrik 9:1 i had lying around and version 2 has really started to sound like version 1 now.
Will test on a few recordings and compare, output level is same as version 1 which i'd expect now as both transformers are within a gnats chaff!

update,

changed R6 by adding anotehr 15R in parallel and now can get 5.05v easily.
 
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Your concept of driving the tube harder with higher voltages sounds intriguing. And you even lowered the plate resistor, right? Could you maybe even post your schematics/chosen part values, that would be just awesome as I am still pretty new to the game. Would I have to switch parts or simply crank up the gas?
Sorry to say, that schematic is proprietary (now owned by someone else). I can give you ideas, but not exact parts, values, or diagram.

So long as the voltage tolerances on your parts - such as C3 - are adequate, you could raise the B+ supply to 200-210V. If you do, recalculate your voltage divider that provides your capsule polarization so that you retain 60V on the backplate (R5 and R5). You'll also have to limit your variable polarizing voltage for the rear diaphragm so that it can only receive 120V max. For a test of the sound, just disconnect the rear diaphragm and autidion the mic in cardioid mode. If you like the sound, then futz with changing the voltage supply to the rear diaphragm.

And one more IMPORTANT thing. Try lowering the heater voltage to about 5.2V. Listen, and see if you prefer that sound. The change will effect the harmonic content of your output signal, and it will also slightly lower the amplification factor of the tube. You might find a heater voltage you prefer to 5.2, but that's a very good starting point for fine-tuning the sound of your mic.

I realize this sounds like building another mic. Guess how most of us got into building the many, many mics we have built :) !!!
 
Sorry to say, that schematic is proprietary (now owned by someone else). I can give you ideas, but not exact parts, values, or diagram.

So long as the voltage tolerances on your parts - such as C3 - are adequate, you could raise the B+ supply to 200-210V. If you do, recalculate your voltage divider that provides your capsule polarization so that you retain 60V on the backplate (R5 and R5). You'll also have to limit your variable polarizing voltage for the rear diaphragm so that it can only receive 120V max. For a test of the sound, just disconnect the rear diaphragm and autidion the mic in cardioid mode. If you like the sound, then futz with changing the voltage supply to the rear diaphragm.

And one more IMPORTANT thing. Try lowering the heater voltage to about 5.2V. Listen, and see if you prefer that sound. The change will effect the harmonic content of your output signal, and it will also slightly lower the amplification factor of the tube. You might find a heater voltage you prefer to 5.2, but that's a very good starting point for fine-tuning the sound of your mic.

I realize this sounds like building another mic. Guess how most of us got into building the many, many mics we have built :) !!!
Thank you very much, Terry. This makes sense to me, a highly fascinating and promising concept and I think I would even be able to get it done, but maybe your last sentence is the most important one: It really sounds like building another mike.

That's why I have to kindly ask you to delete your post, so that my wife doesn't read it :LOL:. It has become kind of a running gag for her to ask: "Is your microphone done now?" and I go: "Yes!" and she goes "Like... for real? Really, really truly done?" and I go: "Yeah." Break. "Well, maybe there's just this one more tiny thing I need to take care of..." and she goes like: "I knew it, it is NEVER EVER going to end". :rolleyes:
 
I wasnt happy at all with the neutrik transformer so wound my own 7:1 and sounds great, done a recording of some voice over cinematic movie style narration and S/N is really good, great bottom end, nice push at 2-3k, top end could be better but its not a great capsule, next investment.
 
I wasnt happy at all with the neutrik transformer so wound my own 7:1 and sounds great, done a recording of some voice over cinematic movie style narration and S/N is really good, great bottom end, nice push at 2-3k, top end could be better but its not a great capsule, next investment.
What did you not like about the neutrik transformer? I wish I could wind my own transformer, too.
 
i had a spare EI25 from ebay

link: 80% Nickel Permalloy EL25 Core and Bobbin for Audio Transformer | eBay

estimated a comfortable 5000 turns on the bobbin:

W1 = 2142 turns 0.05mm
W2 = 2142 turns 0.05mm
W3 = 306 turns of 0.05mm
W4 = 306 turns of 0.05mm

PRI = 1400 ohms
SEC = 210 ohms

i should have tested henries but just shoved it in and it works nice!!!
 
Guys, I am really confused now. I've replaced my 1uF-C5 (the capacitor to pass on the signal to the transformer) by one of the 0.33uF foils above (I shielded it with a bit of copper foil)


EF47_0.33uF_Mod.jpg

and now instead of getting less sub bass I am getting MORE of it. How does this make sense?! Can't wrap my head around this.

Here are my measurements before and after (both raw and compensated - and yes I know there is a heavy 60Hz mode going on in my room at my speaker position and something between the omni reference mic and cardioid mics doesn't quite correlate here, but still):

Measurement_raw_1uF-vs-0.33uF.png


Measurement_comp_1uF-vs-0.33uF.png

The obvious reverse conclusion was to put in a larger cap now instead of a smaller one. But how does this make sense? Any ideas?

Thanks a lot

Ro
 

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  • Measurement_raw_1uF-vs-0.33uF.png
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I've replaced my 1uF-C3 (the capacitor to pass on the signal to the transformer) by one of the 0.33uF foils above (I shielded it with a bit of copper foil)
and now instead of getting less sub bass I am getting MORE of it. How does this make sense?! Can't wrap my head around this.
The obvious reverse conclusion was to put in a larger cap now instead of a smaller one. But how does this make sense? Any ideas?
Yes, its a (huge!) CL resonance between the cap and the output transformer.

check this:

https://sound-au.com/articles/audio-xfmrs.htm
 
Yes, its a (huge!) CL resonance between the cap and the output transformer.

check this:

https://sound-au.com/articles/audio-xfmrs.htm
Alright; got it and understood. Thank you very much. I was partly aware of that issue, but expected to valuewise be able to find some sweet spot lower than 1uF, where the resonances would not be severe, still giving me at least a minimum of a high pass filter behaviour. Which obviously isn't the case.

So I further assume it will be useless to try out other values <1uF, right? So please be so nice to tell me,

a) what happens if I choose a larger cap here; say 1,5uF-ish?
b) whether there is any part of the circuit where I could effectively get rid of infrasonic energy without severe side effects like I have just experienced?

Here's the schematics again - thanks in advance for taking a shot here

M&M_EF47_schematics.png
 
Where does everyone get these cool green caps from and why are they all the rage in these builds? Not to derail the thread but just a quick interjection.

Screenshot 2023-07-30 at 7.44.57 AM.png
 
Alright; got it and understood. Thank you very much. I was partly aware of that issue, but expected to valuewise be able to find some sweet spot lower than 1uF, where the resonances would not be severe, still giving me at least a minimum of a high pass filter behaviour. Which obviously isn't the case.

So I further assume it will be useless to try out other values <1uF, right? So please be so nice to tell me,

a) what happens if I choose a larger cap here; say 1,5uF-ish?
b) whether there is any part of the circuit where I could effectively get rid of infrasonic energy without severe side effects like I have just experienced?

Here's the schematics again - thanks in advance for taking a shot here

View attachment 112439
You can lower R3 (1G) if you havenā€™t already. A value of 60meg should make a noticeable difference. But donā€˜t go too low. I think 30meg is the lowest I would go.
Also between 1uf and 0.33uF are some more values you can try. Maybe 0.5 or 0.68. or a combination of lowering R3 and the output cap.

Or you can lower the cathode cap C4 (47uf) to something between 10uf and 22uf.
 

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