Using the THAT1646 As A Headphone Amp - deleted

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> I do have the Hot Tuna Burgers album.

Bah. You had to BE THERE when they had their BIG GYM SYSTEM on tour mid-1970s.

I must admit..... I stopped 1/4 mile from the gym and realized I didn't want to go inside.

I (my company) actually did their sound, much later, in a much quieter period, in a much smaller room.

> put the trim pot, in Vb-e multipliers, in the b-e leg with a series limit resistor

Good point. But I already said "reckless" so I better stay the course. So he blows-up two bucks of transistors. He doesn't have short-protection either, which is reckless. He can do the frills on the final prototype.

> a post-1646 Vbe multiplier

No, put it before the 1646. That's your great discovery: a DC voltage injected here gets doubled and flipped to both lo-Z outputs.

LED is cool too.

> some discussion elsewhere of a 27 ohm source impedance being desirable ..., but it isn't clear (to me) what the intent of that circuit is.

I was aiming at a "universal maximum power" headphone amp for high-level monitoring. On another forum I plotted the impedance, sensitivity, and power rating of many-many headphones. The vast majority can be driven to very high level and near max power with a source which is 7Vrms and 27 ohms. The hi-Z phones get 6V, the lo-Z phones get 3V. In older days, the low-Z phones typically had higher power ratings and lower power sensitivity, and (for no apparent logical reason) they almost-all converged toward 7V 27 ohm source.

The 27 ohms could be "real" or "virtual". You could have a zero-Z output, but hide 27 ohms worth of sag in the power supply. (Though if there's significant storage after the sagger, you could pop a weak phone before it sagged.)

> use a reasonable build-out resistor

My study put a number on "reasonable". Or semi-reasonable: 7V 27R is WAY loud.

Here's a scatter-plot:
I-V-Z-P.gif


This derives the 7.3V 29R line and some other popular plans:
head-power3.gif


Walkman/iPod devices must lay near the green line.

Note that the 2-AA, IEC, and (30mA) opamp lines won't go near 120dB SPL (nor should we usually want to go anywhere near there). The 32W speaker amp with 100R buildout is able to overpower most phones (indeed I've killed a few by leaving them plugged-in to such a source).

> If the driver in the headphone exhibits a non-flat load that will interact with any source impedance causing a response error

My tests on a few hi- and lo-Z phones say that many hi-Z phones have impedance bumps and most lo-Z ones don't, or just a mild rise at 20KHz. Some very casual abuse says that "damping" per se is not important (these are not room speakers) except that when you drive the coils out of the gap (easy to do on cheapies) damping does reduce the racket a hair (it obvious can't have any effect once the coil actually gets away from the gap). The flat-Z phones should hardly care what the source Z is. Even when there is a 20KHz rise, the "error" from low or high drive Z is less than the overall error of a pennyworth of mylar. The 300 ohm jobs that rise to 600 ohms at 400Hz should be driven from a specified impedance to give the specified response... but it is rarely specified. There is an IEC test-spec which mentions a 120 ohm resistor, but I never saw a headphone sales sheet which suggested any such thing. My tin-ear impression is that the AKG 600 are "flatter" with source of 100 ohms or less, but maybe that's my bad taste.

Even 5 years ago, most headphones were re-badged 1980s designs. But the iPod has stirred the low-Z pot. The buds I got free with my iPod appear to be more sensitive than some high-price closed-ear traditional phones wound to a similar Z. The economics of pocket batteries are harsh, and Apple can afford to develop thrifty drivers to make the most of that wafer-thin battery. (My Nano is smaller than the clicker for my Honda, and holds a LOT more tunes than the 5-CD radio in the dash.) So my 7V 27R guide may be going out of date, in the direction of "excessive", at least for iPod-tradition phones.

Oh... for portable battery use, you don't design for "universal impedance". In lo-Z loads, anything over a few volts is pure waste; in hi-Z work anything over a few mA is a waste. My aim was wall-power, where "waste" was using a 30VA transformer to get under a Watt of total audio. That's the fun of DIY home headphone amps: grotesque waste is trivial cost. I could not afford a 6,000VA transformer for my 2*100W loudspeaker amp, but at headphone levels it was junkbox dregs. (One of mine uses a power wart stolen from a burglar alarm system.)

> THAT1646 at these low voltage levels is it's -101 dBu typical noise.

Well, at gain of 2?

I expected to have to tap low line levels and judge system hiss/buzz levels. A previous hack had been inadequate at gain of 5 and had to be torqued to gain of 10, still not generous. I find that gain of 50 is "enough". Far too much 99% of the time, and gain near 2 is often comfortable as a confidence monitor. But I might also be tapping quite high-level sources. To get almost 40dB range of gain without noise or overload compromises (and with fairly high-hiss BiFet devices) I felt I had to use an active variable-gain stage rather than a simple loss-pot.

> I've always been happy with using one of my preamp cards as headphone amps

Of course. Headphone tradition IS telephone tradition, and a pro Line Output is a telco line driver. I believe many studio phones evolved to work with the 150 ohm tap of a +18dBm Line Amp. And while a single telephone earpiece is 200-500 ohms, the telco also had "bridging" phones of 2K impedance and hotter magnet so an operator could tap a line with little drop; an old Sennheiser was made in 2K impedance and could almost be dropped across an active broadcast line without being noticed.

It is the 3V Walkman and iPod which changed the world. Now it is about power at 1V signal.
 
Thanks PRR, much data, history, and wisdom in one post. Anyone interested in rolling their own headphone driver should read that twice.

These days it is probably not possible to make one headphone amp ideal for all applications, so there are probably several answers to what is optimal for different application.

When I designed my last one, the goal was to be usable (loud enough) for a drummer to use cans for a monitor while playing, or a mixer to listen to feeds from a console in a live sound environment. So I went for a ton of voltage swing, and a build-out impedance that would tolerate cheap 3.2 ohm cans but still drive 600 ohms cans to decent levels. I don't recall what build-out I settled on so it may have been lower than 50 ohm but probably not much.

On less robust headphone amps (using to-92 and only +/- 15v rails) I probably used 50 ohms or larger, but IIRC not more than 100 ohm.

Try it and do what works for you... There is probably a larger difference between headphone models than the resistor value will cause, but with a given model headphone you might improve it's performance.

JR

PS: Note: if your cans have a rising impedance at very high frequency a larger source impedance will give you some HF boost. While not exactly free, it cost you level at lower levels, but if you have level to burn, some almost free EQ is there for the taking.

PPS: I once encountered a live SR guy who should have known better, advocating some skinny "magic" speaker wire based on his listening tests... He was inadvertently equalizing his speakers (due to wire resistance) and wasting a bunch of power too.
 
I remember cheapo 8 ohm cans. The advantage was that they were standard radio speakers. When you killed the 0.1W drivers, you pried them out of the snot-glue and hunted for the 0.5W model in the same basket: $2 repair/upgrade.

One early HP amp of mine was a utility amp built into an ARP synth. One LM386 cheap speaker amp chip hanging on the +15 side of the +/-15V supply (or was I wise enuff to tap a +12V lamp supply?). Did well enough in early KOSS 110 ohm phones, and quite ample in the 8 ohm cans I left by the ARP. Saved a lot of speakers and my nerves. Probably had 10R buildouts.

Those 8R cans must have been common. The studio was a lot of TEAC tape decks, and their HP output was one SE transistor into a 1K:8R transformer. It drove the KOSSes fairly OK, and 8R was duck soup, but was lame for many pro phones.

The alternative was the Dynaco tranny-preamp. It had 600R collector resistors and "would" drive 600 ohms, but low-Z cans effectively muted the main outputs. (Which is not a bad thing.) Had a Gately micromixer which also assumed all phones were 600 ohms.

My career has run one step behind headphone impedance trends. I built a 10Vrms 150R amp, and it wasn't overwhelming in 50 ohms. I built 9Vrms behind 65R, but when I finished it I found a lot of 32R WalkMan phones around my life. I could rebuild it in class AB with 27R buildout, but I have not done much live recording this decade. The gigs I got were so soft and simple I could use the CDR deck's jack and avoid carrying another box.

> usable (loud enough) for a drummer to use cans for a monitor while playing, or a mixer to listen to feeds from a console in a live sound environment

Mostly, I think 7V 29R will do that. And it is a nice fit with +/-15V supplies (which may not be coincidence).

There are a few phones which need more than 20Vpp to blow you away. I've heard of going +/-18V to drive them.

The world is full of cheap drivers which won't last long on an over-driven 3V Walkman.

There is one low-low-efficiency phone which just really needs a speaker amp. It's well over 16 ohms so it doesn't pull heavy Watts, but it wants 6dB-10dB more power than most phones, and costs so much you won't use it for soft background murmur.

I still have my Crown D-60. That was a mainstay headphone driver in many studios.

> Anyone interested in rolling their own headphone driver should read that twice.

No, anyone interested in rolling their own headphone driver will tart it up with MOSFETs and active ground channels and multi-loop/zero feedback and an under-fed vacuum tube. The milli-power nature of headphone driving means rationality is not needed.
 
[quote author="PRR"]

I still have my Crown D-60. That was a mainstay headphone driver in many studios.

> Anyone interested in rolling their own headphone driver should read that twice.

No, anyone interested in rolling their own headphone driver will tart it up with MOSFETs and active ground channels and multi-loop/zero feedback and an under-fed vacuum tube. The milli-power nature of headphone driving means rationality is not needed.[/quote]

Yup, popular studio trick was to use something like 200 ohm build-outs wired to how ever many jacks you wanted all around the studio, powered by anywhere from 60-120W re-purposed audio amp...
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I also designed a 1x4 headphone splitter box. I think I used something like 22 ohms (on each jack L&R). An infinite number of splitters could be plugged into each other without overloading an output.
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Agreed, HP amps are a lot safer and more fun than experimenting with speaker amps due to lighter current requirements.

I may need to explain my design mindset in most such things, from 15 years of appealing to customers who never see a schematic or parts list, and whose product comes in plain wrapper. Their concern was what does it cost? and how does it sound? usually in that order . :cry: I took consolation in knowing that more sound quality is controlled by how you use the parts, than what you pay for them, and being a decent sized manufacturer means we could get a lot of part for our money. I recall using something like 1 million small signal diodes a month, so when you call the vendors listen.

JR
 
> the dominate products added are even-order.

I feel silly asking this about a -96dB flaw, but... Why?

Where is 2nd harmonic coming from?
 
Back when I was tweaking on the bench I would use the product output from my distortion analyzer to feed a spectrum analyzer. This added some 40-50 dB to my measurement range, of course I could read the distortion floor of my distortion analyzer in the process, and ran it 10 dB cooler than it's nominal when used this way.

Perhaps roll a simple notch filter using some modern high performance opamp (some publish pretty remarkable linearity). At some point you may be bumping into chasing bench residuals.

If the circuitry being tested has low propagation delay you could null it in real time. The depth of this null doesn't have to be perfect to extend measurement range a bunch.

Have fun.

JR
 
[quote author="mediatechnology"]
Other than the 10K load I don't see any reason why the 1646 could not be driven directly from the wiper of a 10K pot if accurate control law, i.e. taper, isn't important.[/quote]

Use a 50k linear taper pot and let the 10k load it. The final curve will approximate an audio taper.

You might try a 100k linear also; the volume will come up slower with this value.

regards, Jack
 
The lack of fundamental cancellation due to phase shift is part of the work involved in making a proper distortion analyzer. While perhaps not obvious there is phase shift associated with NFB amplifiers especially at high closed loop gains, which makes the simple null unusable for kitchen sink metering, to gauge total distortion. Some purists could argue the phase shift is also a form of distortion and should be lumped in with the other components.

The common stability compensation capacitor used to roll off gain at very high frequency, introduces a 90' phase shift in the op-amp's open loop transfer function. This phase shift is reduced to insignificance along with other errors in the open loop transfer function by NF as long as there is a large loop gain margin between closed loop and open loop gain, but when you run out of open loop gain you also run out of ability to correct that open loop phase shift. This stability compensation is usually a simple one pole response often starting down in the audio passband. While there are other variants used to stabilize opamps for NF with different open loop transfer functions.

The null trick is a handy way to extend the dynamic range of spectrum analyzers. BTW how would you characterize the sound difference between those low order distortion components at -85 db vs. ones at -95 dB? :wink:

JR
 
This looks like a nice solution for a headphone buffer.

http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LME49600.html

I think you can't get much cleaner than that with the right PSU and layout of course.
 
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