Want to HIRE HELP to find/solve my Schematic/PCB error (HELIOS)

[Ted Krotkiewski]

Hello friends.
I have a rather weird last bit of hope request, and I feel like a bit of a failure to be here asking it.

Short story: I have spent ridiculous amount of time the last 1.5 year trying to master building and modifying the Helios Type69 (0011) EQ with the amazing help and guidance from the master @Ian Bell @ruffrecords and his designs.

I have successfully built a working prototype of the Type69 EQ with some modifications. I love it and use it in my work, but there´s wires sticking out everywhere. So I naturally needed to take the next step of printing PCB´s
However, This is where I have failed.
I learned EASYEDA and after 2 months of converting my schematic of my modified Helios EQ design over to a PCB design and after completing a build of my printed PCB´s. It just does NOT WORK... AT ALL!

Since Im a noob, my knowledge is just not enough to know how to go back and trace what and where something has gone wrong at this stage of the PCB design.
I am working fulltime as a Film Sound designer, so I just do not have the time.

REQUEST:
Is there anyone here at this great forum that I could hire to help me investigate and try to solve my error(s) by looking at my schematic and the PCB gerber design?
Im not sure if this is possible to problem solve remotely?

Please let me know your thoughts and if you'd be willing to help me out and how much you want in return to take it on.

@IanBell you have been with me from the start, so I would be stupid not to ask you for help.
But you have helped me more than enough, so I would want this to be a paid service.

I am eager to understand what I have failed with in my design and would be so happy to see this finally work at some point.

Thank you for your time!
//Ted

 

[Whoops]

Can you please let us know what are your goals with that design? what are the mods? what are you trying to achieve?

 

[MidnightArrakis]

Hello friends.
I have a rather weird last bit of hope request, and I feel like a bit of a failure to be here asking it.

Short story: I have spent ridiculous amount of time the last 1.5 year trying to master building and modifying the Helios Type69 (0011) EQ with the amazing help and guidance from the master @Ian Bell @ruffrecords and his designs.

I have successfully built a working prototype of the Type69 EQ with some modifications. I love it and use it in my work, but there´s wires sticking out everywhere. So I naturally needed to take the next step of printing PCB´s
However, This is where I have failed.
I learned EASYEDA and after 2 months of converting my schematic of my modified Helios EQ design over to a PCB design and after completing a build of my printed PCB´s. It just does NOT WORK... AT ALL!

Since Im a noob, my knowledge is just not enough to know how to go back and trace what and where something has gone wrong at this stage of the PCB design.
I am working fulltime as a Film Sound designer, so I just do not have the time.

REQUEST:
Is there anyone here at this great forum that I could hire to help me investigate and try to solve my error(s) by looking at my schematic and the PCB gerber design?
Im not sure if this is possible to problem solve remotely?

Please let me know your thoughts and if you'd be willing to help me out and how much you want in return to take it on.

@IanBell you have been with me from the start, so I would be stupid not to ask you for help.
But you have helped me more than enough, so I would want this to be a paid service.

I am eager to understand what I have failed with in my design and would be so happy to see this finally work at some point.

Thank you for your time!
//Ted

Send me -- ALL -- of your GERBER and N/C Drill data files of your layout and I will look them over for you!!! You -- may -- have missed routing a net somewhere or you -- could -- be missing a pad on one of your PCB footprints or one of any number of other items that as a "Newbie" you could have easily overlooked. However, before sending me your GERBER files, first -- check that your "EasyEDA" PCB design program has generated "RS-274X" GERBER files, otherwise you will also have to include sending an " .apr " file as well. No matter what, though.....just send me all of your output files and I will let you know if I have any problems loading them into my GERBER-editing program to review them for you. Sound like a plan???

/

 

[Ted Krotkiewski]

Can you please let us know what are your goals with that design? what are the mods? what are you trying to achieve?

Thanks for writing Whoops.
Good questions.

My goals are to make it more usable for my needs.
and also, to be honest. Im probably too stubborn for my own good. If I don´t change anything in the original design, there is no fun in doing it for me and it´s the only way I learn.
Otherwise I would just have bought PCB´s from Ian Bell long ago, and call it a day.

* Low Cut Filter:
When I mix, I find myself using LowCut filter in combination with bass boost a lot when sculpting drums for example, to get a good and clean thump and punch. A Neve 1073 EQ is a perfect example of that. and not the least some of the Original Helios 0011 modules.
So I wanted to add a Low cut section with a buffer afterwards, to isolate that function so that I could boost the Lows unaffected by the low cut.

* BUFFER after Bass and Mid section, so that the HIGH BOOST gets isolated from the rest and that MID and High Boost does not interfere with each other. This gives me about +25db of high freg boost, should one ever want that.. =)

* Frequencies:
I added and changed some frequencies in the Mid band and Bass band.
The added 16k found in Ian Bell´s schematic is brilliant, and reminds me of the inductor based mid @11,5K that I have on my old Custom made Raindirk Mixer which I love for adding air on vocals etc.
However the gap between 16K and 6K is a bit of a waste in my opinion. So I added 12K and 8K in between to have a much more natural usable range.

* Transformers:
I love transformers. So I wanted to add Output trannies.
I designed the PCB so that I can choose between two different options that I like. Edcor & OEP.

* Opamp:
I also here, designed the PCB so that I can choose between a OPA134 IC opamp or a API 2520 discrete opamp as 15db make up gain.

* Bypass Switch on Bass band

Of course, all of these extras opens up a whole lot of more possible errors.

Interested to hear your thoughts =)
All my best.
//Ted

 

[ruffrecords]

I notice on your schematic you have both a GND A and a 0V. I can see why you might have wanted to label the differently but the do need to be connected together because they are really the same thing. This might explain a lot of the odd behaviour you have seen.

Cheers

Ian

 

[MidnightArrakis]

Hello friends.
I have a rather weird last bit of hope request, and I feel like a bit of a failure to be here asking it.

Short story: I have spent ridiculous amount of time the last 1.5 year trying to master building and modifying the Helios Type69 (0011) EQ with the amazing help and guidance from the master @Ian Bell @ruffrecords and his designs.

I have successfully built a working prototype of the Type69 EQ with some modifications. I love it and use it in my work, but there´s wires sticking out everywhere. So I naturally needed to take the next step of printing PCB´s
However, This is where I have failed.
I learned EASYEDA and after 2 months of converting my schematic of my modified Helios EQ design over to a PCB design and after completing a build of my printed PCB´s. It just does NOT WORK... AT ALL!

Since Im a noob, my knowledge is just not enough to know how to go back and trace what and where something has gone wrong at this stage of the PCB design.
I am working fulltime as a Film Sound designer, so I just do not have the time.

REQUEST:
Is there anyone here at this great forum that I could hire to help me investigate and try to solve my error(s) by looking at my schematic and the PCB gerber design?
Im not sure if this is possible to problem solve remotely?

Please let me know your thoughts and if you'd be willing to help me out and how much you want in return to take it on.

@IanBell you have been with me from the start, so I would be stupid not to ask you for help.
But you have helped me more than enough, so I would want this to be a paid service.

I am eager to understand what I have failed with in my design and would be so happy to see this finally work at some point.

Thank you for your time!
//Ted

A couple of hours -- after -- I had posted my original response back to you, I visited the EasyEDA website just to see what that program was into and I was surprised to discover that it will ALSO provide an "ALTIUM Designer" output file!!! I never would have imagined a program such as EasyEDA doing that!!!

Since you are a "Newbie" using these CAD-design software programs, I will inform you that "GERBER" files are termed as being "non-intelligent" files, whereas the actual CAD PCB-design files are termed "intelligent" files. Therefore, if you would take your actual EasyEDA PCB-design file and generate an "ALTIUM Designer" output file from it and then send me that "ALTIUM Designer" output file, I could then run a series of "intelligent" DRC (Design Rule Check) routines on your design to try to pinpoint what your layout problem may be. Sound like a plan???

And.....in case you might be wondering.....I have two separate CAD PCB-design programs which will load-in and read an "ALTIUM Designer" PCB-design file, one of which is the "ALTIUM Designer" program itself. The other program that I have is the CADENCE/OrCAD "PCB Editor" Release 17.4 PCB Design program that has an "ALTIUM Designer" import function. And, should you not be immediately aware, both the ALTIUM and CADENCE/OrCAD PCB-design programs cost several thousands of dollars EACH!!! The point being.....with my having your actual CAD PCB-design file, I could run the various diagnostic routines that these programs have to try and determine what your EasyEDA layout problem might be.

Again, after I had originally responded to your posting and without having any knowledge of -- how -- you have designed your HELIOS PCB, I read in one of my PCB Design magazines that it -- could -- be possible that one of the Thru-Hole pads or vias in your layout may -- NOT -- have been plated!!! This, of course, would create an electrical discontinuity in a circuit which would possibly result in the problem you are describing. So, if you could share with me the "ALTIUM Designer" output file version of your EasyEDA PCB design, I might be able to locate where your problem is since the "ALTIUM Designer" PCB file will also be an "intelligent" CAD data file. (NOTE: I will still also need an "ALTIUM Designer" version of your schematic in order to keep the two files in sync).

Looking forward to hearing back from you shortly!!!

/

 

[Ted Krotkiewski]

A couple of hours -- after -- I had posted my original response back to you, I visited the EasyEDA website just to see what that program was into and I was surprised to discover that it will ALSO provide an "ALTIUM Designer" output file!!! I never would have imagined a program such as EasyEDA doing that!!!

Since you are a "Newbie" using these CAD-design software programs, I will inform you that "GERBER" files are termed as being "non-intelligent" files, whereas the actual CAD PCB-design files are termed "intelligent" files. Therefore, if you would take your actual EasyEDA PCB-design file and generate an "ALTIUM Designer" output file from it and then send me that "ALTIUM Designer" output file, I could then run a series of "intelligent" DRC (Design Rule Check) routines on your design to try to pinpoint what your layout problem may be. Sound like a plan???

And.....in case you might be wondering.....I have two separate CAD PCB-design programs which will load-in and read an "ALTIUM Designer" PCB-design file, one of which is the "ALTIUM Designer" program itself. The other program that I have is the CADENCE/OrCAD "PCB Editor" Release 17.4 PCB Design program that has an "ALTIUM Designer" import function. And, should you not be immediately aware, both the ALTIUM and CADENCE/OrCAD PCB-design programs cost several thousands of dollars EACH!!! The point being.....with my having your actual CAD PCB-design file, I could run the various diagnostic routines that these programs have to try and determine what your EasyEDA layout problem might be.

Again, after I had originally responded to your posting and without having any knowledge of -- how -- you have designed your HELIOS PCB, I read in one of my PCB Design magazines that it -- could -- be possible that one of the Thru-Hole pads or vias in your layout may -- NOT -- have been plated!!! This, of course, would create an electrical discontinuity in a circuit which would possibly result in the problem you are describing. So, if you could share with me the "ALTIUM Designer" output file version of your EasyEDA PCB design, I might be able to locate where your problem is since the "ALTIUM Designer" PCB file will also be an "intelligent" CAD data file. (NOTE: I will still also need an "ALTIUM Designer" version of your schematic in order to keep the two files in sync).

Looking forward to hearing back from you shortly!!!

/

How very nice of you to offer me this and thank you for the info.

I have the feeling that whatever is not working, is caused by something that I did wrong rather than an error from EasyEDA software or the manufacturing process (Also done by EasyEDA)
However if your program could detect something that is wrong wether it´s caused by me or EasyEDA, that would be fantastic.
I will send you my files as son as I get home.

Thank you for your time.
//Ted

 

[Ted Krotkiewski]

I notice on your schematic you have both a GND A and a 0V. I can see why you might have wanted to label the differently but the do need to be connected together because they are really the same thing. This might explain a lot of the odd behaviour you have seen.

Cheers

Ian

Thank you for writing and thank you for having a look at the schematic.

That is just me being too lazy to re-label them right. I started out to label them differently so that in the drawing process I always knew that "0V" was the bottom board, and GND A was the top.
They are all connected as ONE GROUND. All the "GND A" labels are leading to the "0V" of the bottom board through the Pin headers.

My best.

 

[MidnightArrakis]

How very nice of you to offer me this and thank you for the info.

I have the feeling that whatever is not working, is caused by something that I did wrong rather than an error from EasyEDA software or the manufacturing process (Also done by EasyEDA)
However if your program could detect something that is wrong wether it´s caused by me or EasyEDA, that would be fantastic.
I will send you my files as son as I get home.

Thank you for your time.
//Ted

[caused by something that I did wrong rather than an error from EasyEDA software or the manufacturing process] -- That's why I need to actually see both your GERBER and N/C Drill data files -- AND -- the "ALTIUM Designer" version of your PCB layout. You -- may -- have a "too small" drill hit in a via or something that could have possibly ended up as - not - being plated. This is a layout mistake that I have seen "Newbie's" make before.

As a side-note.....when exporting the "ALTIUM Designer" version of your layout, first create a separate folder called "ALTIUM Output" or something and direct your EasyEDA program to place all of the ALTIUM files there. Then, create a ZIP file of all of the files in that folder and send me the ZIP file. I will take a close look at your layout and let you know what I find. Plus, don't forget to output an "ALTIUM Designer" version of the schematic as well. The software has an internal mechanism to keep both the schematic and PCB design files sync'd together.

[if your program could detect something that is wrong whether it´s caused by me or EasyEDA, that would be fantastic] -- Both the "ALTIUM Designer" and my CADENCE/OrCAD "PCB Editor" layout programs have "Electrical Continuity" checking, which -- may -- find whatever is wrong with your layout. This is another reason why also having your schematic file being available is important.

[I will send you my files as soon as I get home] -- "Standing By....."

/

 

[MidnightArrakis]

[caused by something that I did wrong rather than an error from EasyEDA software or the manufacturing process] -- That's why I need to actually see both your GERBER and N/C Drill data files -- AND -- the "ALTIUM Designer" version of your PCB layout. You -- may -- have a "too small" drill hit in a via or something that could have possibly ended up as - not - being plated. This is a layout mistake that I have seen "Newbie's" make before.

As a side-note.....when exporting the "ALTIUM Designer" version of your layout, first create a separate folder called "ALTIUM Output" or something and direct your EasyEDA program to place all of the ALTIUM files there. Then, create a ZIP file of all of the files in that folder and send me the ZIP file. I will take a close look at your layout and let you know what I find. Plus, don't forget to output an "ALTIUM Designer" version of the schematic as well. The software has an internal mechanism to keep both the schematic and PCB design files sync'd together.

[if your program could detect something that is wrong whether it´s caused by me or EasyEDA, that would be fantastic] -- Both the "ALTIUM Designer" and my CADENCE/OrCAD "PCB Editor" layout programs have "Electrical Continuity" checking, which -- may -- find whatever is wrong with your layout. This is another reason why also having your schematic file being available is important.

[I will send you my files as soon as I get home] -- "Standing By....."

/

I have received your files and I have reviewed them. During my review I have seen a few issues, one in particular, that could very well cause you some PCB fabrication problems. However, even though I have contacted you about this, I have yet to hear back from you. Are you still wishing to have me resolve your problem?

In addition, while I certainly do appreciate your sending me a set of ALTIUM output files, I do not believe that you have sent me -- ALL -- of the ALTIUM output files. Either that, or you need to create a type of ALTIUM file and that would be an ALTIUM "Project" file (i.e., a "Filename.prjpcb" file). Please try to create another set of ALTIUM output files and if you have the opportunity to select a "Version" or "Year" as an output type, select a fairly early or old type of output file.

 

[MidnightArrakis]

Thank you for writing and thank you for having a look at the schematic.

That is just me being too lazy to re-label them right. I started out to label them differently so that in the drawing process I always knew that "0V" was the bottom board, and GND A was the top.
They are all connected as ONE GROUND. All the "GND A" labels are leading to the "0V" of the bottom board through the Pin headers.

My best.

Ted: In order to make things easier for you and for me to try and find your PCB problems, I just went ahead and downloaded and installed the latest version of the EasyEDA PCB program onto my own CAD-workstation. So.....if you would now just send me your actual EasyEDA PCB design and project files, now I will be able to see them in the same domain as you have created them in!!! Just let me know whenever you send me your PCB files, OK??? Best of luck!!!

/

 

[abbey road d enfer]

It just does NOT WORK... AT ALL!

There are very well proven methods for faultfinding.
It starts with checking DC voltages, particularly rails, then the input/output pins of opamps.
If they are correct, signal must be traced, from input to output, starting with "Input B", then pins 1 & 7 of U4, and so on.
The best way is using an oscilloscope, but if you don't have access to one, you can make a sniffer with a small amp and speaker.
One thing that does not help is your schemo is very hard to read, because many connections are not seen, instead you have put labels; of course, it's perfectly fine wrt to PCB integrity, but requires additional attention when trying to figure out where signal flows.

 

[FIX]

One note about the 2520, it's not an opamp that has a variable bias like some opamps that always have the same bias regardless of rails. Running it on 12 may give a little more crossover distortion than usual.

 

[MidnightArrakis]

Hello friends.
I have a rather weird last bit of hope request, and I feel like a bit of a failure to be here asking it.

Short story: I have spent ridiculous amount of time the last 1.5 year trying to master building and modifying the Helios Type69 (0011) EQ with the amazing help and guidance from the master @Ian Bell @ruffrecords and his designs.

I have successfully built a working prototype of the Type69 EQ with some modifications. I love it and use it in my work, but there´s wires sticking out everywhere. So I naturally needed to take the next step of printing PCB´s
However, This is where I have failed.
I learned EASYEDA and after 2 months of converting my schematic of my modified Helios EQ design over to a PCB design and after completing a build of my printed PCB´s. It just does NOT WORK... AT ALL!

Since Im a noob, my knowledge is just not enough to know how to go back and trace what and where something has gone wrong at this stage of the PCB design.
I am working fulltime as a Film Sound designer, so I just do not have the time.

REQUEST:
Is there anyone here at this great forum that I could hire to help me investigate and try to solve my error(s) by looking at my schematic and the PCB gerber design?
Im not sure if this is possible to problem solve remotely?

Please let me know your thoughts and if you'd be willing to help me out and how much you want in return to take it on.

@IanBell you have been with me from the start, so I would be stupid not to ask you for help.
But you have helped me more than enough, so I would want this to be a paid service.

I am eager to understand what I have failed with in my design and would be so happy to see this finally work at some point.

Thank you for your time!
//Ted

I have completely gone over both your TOP and BOTTOM PCBs and I have also made significant changes to your routing, your "Copper Pour" grounding and your routing track vias, which is - WHERE - your problem is!!! However, while I have uploaded both of these revised PCB design files back to you, I have yet to hear back from you, although it has now been quite a while. So.....you're on your own now.

/

 

[abbey road d enfer]

Ted was last active exactly one month ago...

 

[MidnightArrakis]

Thank you for writing and thank you for having a look at the schematic.

That is just me being too lazy to re-label them right. I started out to label them differently so that in the drawing process I always knew that "0V" was the bottom board, and GND A was the top.
They are all connected as ONE GROUND. All the "GND A" labels are leading to the "0V" of the bottom board through the Pin headers.

My best.

HEY!!! I was just wondering if you are still alive while also wondering whatever happened to your PCB layout that I had sent back to you? I believe that I had found what was causing your problem and I was surprised that you never got back to me to either discuss your issue further or to learn what it is that you had done incorrectly in your layout. The problem is being caused by a "Newbie" layout error and is extremely simple to fix -- IF -- you are told what needs to be corrected!!! In any case.....best of luck!!!

/

 

[Ted Krotkiewski]

HEY!!! I was just wondering if you are still alive while also wondering whatever happened to your PCB layout that I had sent back to you? I believe that I had found what was causing your problem and I was surprised that you never got back to me to either discuss your issue further or to learn what it is that you had done incorrectly in your layout. The problem is being caused by a "Newbie" layout error and is extremely simple to fix -- IF -- you are told what needs to be corrected!!! In any case.....best of luck!!!

/

Dear Midnight and the other who has written.
I have completely missed your replies here, and for that I apologize! What excellent help you have given me that I have not seen.

I kind of had to shut down this hobby for a while as work and family became too much, as well as moving to a new house, having all my electronics in storage for months.

However, I´m back now! ...and ask for you forgivness, if you´ll have me still =)

One BIG! error I just noted myself is that the pin headers, connecting the two boards were positioned COMPLETELY wrong. I simply forgot to think of it as reversed, since one of the boards will be turned around when fitted. NEWBIE!!
So, I successfully managed to wire everything correctly with the PCB´s and to my surprise, most of it WORKED!! yayy!

Treble and Mid bands works as expected!

I am however still stuck with 3 main problems.
1. The Bass band is not getting bypassed when bypassing the EQ. It is still active, while all other bands is getting bypassed.

2. The freq selections are all over the place, completely disordered. One step might be 60Hz and the other might be -10db cut.. I need to put it into an analyser to see what is actually happening for each step, but is seems that is not the order placement of caps for each step that is wrong, but something more fundamental.
When looking at the schematic and the capacitor placements on the PCB, it looks to be in it´s right place/order, so I am scratching my head over why this is happening.

3. The Makeup gain when EQ is angaged is way too low. I guess I simply have to change the feedback resistor, but when breadbording this, the value of 68K was for some reason the value that brought up the -15db loss to unity level. Even though in @ruffrecords prints on how to make a fitting Make up gain, the feedback resistor is 10K...

@MidnightArrakis I did look at what you gave me back in November, and I also did thank you for it our PM conversation. However, I did not know how to proceed from that. Or rather what intelligent questions I should ask back?
I will take a close look at it and gather some questions for you if that is OK still?

Thank you everyone for your time, wich I appreciate like gold.
My best.

 

[Ted Krotkiewski]

There are very well proven methods for faultfinding.
It starts with checking DC voltages, particularly rails, then the input/output pins of opamps.
If they are correct, signal must be traced, from input to output, starting with "Input B", then pins 1 & 7 of U4, and so on.
The best way is using an oscilloscope, but if you don't have access to one, you can make a sniffer with a small amp and speaker.
One thing that does not help is your schemo is very hard to read, because many connections are not seen, instead you have put labels; of course, it's perfectly fine wrt to PCB integrity, but requires additional attention when trying to figure out where signal flows.

Thank you very much for this.
Yes, it is definitely time that I buy myself an Oscilloscope and learn faultfinding.

 

[MidnightArrakis]

OK.....carefully review the files I had sent back to you and see if they will work for you. If, after you have now discovered that you had incorrectly designed things wrong from the beginning, would like to have me incorporate the corrected information into your/my new PCB layout, then just provide me with the newly updated information and I can also take care of that for you. Sound like a plan?

Did my redesign of your layout work for you? How does it look to you? Can you see and/or tell what it was that you had done incorrectly in your original layout which probably caused your layout not to work? Is there anything else that you are working on now that things have settled down?

/

 

[Ted Krotkiewski]

OK.....carefully review the files I had sent back to you and see if they will work for you. If, after you have now discovered that you had incorrectly designed things wrong from the beginning, would like to have me incorporate the corrected information into your/my new PCB layout, then just provide me with the newly updated information and I can also take care of that for you. Sound like a plan?

Did my redesign of your layout work for you? How does it look to you? Can you see and/or tell what it was that you had done incorrectly in your original layout which probably caused your layout not to work? Is there anything else that you are working on now that things have settled down?

/

Wonderfull. Thanks a lot for that offer. I will do that later today and send it over to you. I will also look through the previous PCB you did and try to gather as much as I can from it.
I found another post you did about creating PCB´s: HERE
Just at a glance, there was so much great info in those articles about PCB creation. Thank you for that too!

My best.