wanted( EU) : repair prodigy for Apogee AD16X/ no schematic

[Whoops]

There's so many of these Apogee units with dead channels around, it would be great and a public service is Apogee released the schematics.

It's a shame because they are really good converters and the world doesn't need more E-waste

 

[Khron]

Who cares about e-waste? Apogee "need" to sell more new units... <end of cynical sarcasm>

https://youtu.be/l5Hlf6nLvV4

 

[Whoops]

Who cares about e-waste? Apogee "need" to sell more new units... <end of cynical sarcasm>

https://youtu.be/l5Hlf6nLvV4

I know you were joking, and I know how companies work. There's a thread I think in the Brewery were it's being discussed.


The Apogee AD16 and the AD8000 are still nowadays really great converters.
It's a shame they're not being repaired.
I'm sure with the schematics would be easy and cheap to repair the channels that stop working on this units.

I will try to repair some units in the next months.
I will try to trace the circuit with the limitations I have.

If someone else has more info on these units or wants to join the tracing please do

thank you so much

 

[Khron]

I had seen a few faulty Apogee units pop up on eBay every now and then, but they ended up too pricey (for me), to take the dive. I'm sure they would've made for some nice profits ;D

 

[Michael Tibes]

Apogee does have some sort of service agency in europe, they wrote that as a reply when I asked for schematics... I guess every apogee dealer should be able to send the broken in, here in Berlin they listed several of the big shops.

I didn't (yet) go down that road because i hope that I'll find the time to look into it myself, I have two broken DA16s and there seems to be a typical error in the output stages.

Still I hate not being able to get schematics from them and I will look into other brands when I buy new converters, particuarly since it is the same error on several channels which feels like a design flaw. I also asked them for a part of the schematic or a even a hint to what might be wrong, but nothing.

Michael

 

[Khron]

I kinda-sorta wonder how tricky tracing out the analog circuitry would be...

For my own edification, i've managed to "decode", for example, the input circuitry and preamps in a few audio interfaces that passed through my hands (MOTU 8Pre / 828mk2, Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, M-Audio Fast Track / ProFire 2626). In some cases it was out of sheer curiosity, in others it was in order to see what resistors needed altering, to decrease the minimum gain, etc.

It's the digital side where things get closer to impossible (or at least not-really-feasible)...

I didn't (yet) go down that road because i hope that I'll find the time to look into it myself, I have two broken DA16s and there seems to be a typical error in the output stages.

Still I hate not being able to get schematics from them and I will look into other brands when I buy new converters, particuarly since it is the same error on several channels which feels like a design flaw. I also asked them for a part of the schematic or a even a hint to what might be wrong, but nothing.

Michael

 

[Andy Peters]

Still I hate not being able to get schematics from them and I will look into other brands when I buy new converters, particuarly since it is the same error on several channels which feels like a design flaw.

You should call other converter manufacturers and ask them about obtaining schematics.  Tell them the truth: you are considering their products but will not purchase them it you do not have access to service documents.

My crystal ball tells me that you will not be buying any converters.

 

[Khron]

I'd be highly surprised if ANY would / will be willing to divulge much, if anything. Spare parts, in some cases, maybe, but full documentation, highly unlikely (imho).

That being said, as i might've mentioned, the analog parts are, at best, variations on a very small number of potential themes.

 

[Whoops]

That being said, as i might've mentioned, the analog parts are, at best, variations on a very small number of potential themes.

You're probably right.
I will try so trace what I can from the AD8000 and AD16

At least I would like to know whats the component that is making the channels die without notice

 

[scott2000]

I remember coming across some blog where a guy sort of reverse engineered a DA12....I think they were similar to the older DA16.....

Here----

http://stiftsbogtrykkeriet.dk/~mcs/DA-12/DA-12.html

Just throwing it out there....

 

[Tubetec]

just to compare with the good old days ,got a telefunken radio in for repair recently ,carefully enveloped in the back of the cabinet was a full schematic ,bless them.
what good is a load of shares in a dud company who screws over their customers if you've already sold your soul to the devil ,
corporate greed ,a conspiracy theory ? conspiracy theories have a funny way of hardening into facts later ,but of course the golden goose has flown the coup at that stage .
it may cost us dollars to replace stuff that wasnt meant to last ,and the resources cost lives to dig out of the ground ,wars in far away places is the real cost,thats what were paying for .probably a more suitable point to be made in Brewery but anyway
Choose wisely.

 

[Andy Peters]

Choose wisely.

My comment above still applies: you have no choice.

 

[Whoops]

My comment above still applies: you have no choice.

I'm with both of you, it's really sad to see whats happening.

I also agree with Andy that there's no choice,
I will even go deeper with some polemic personal views, that I think repair businesses should have tax  benefits and that companies should be obliged to release the schematics, and that the economy should not be let run free and state and governments should intervene.
But I guess that's something for the brewery

For now I really just want to be able to fix the 2 Apogee units, and as I have some other friends with the same problems, maybe I will be able to help them in the future also.
There's nothing wrong soundwise with the AD8000 or AD16 converters, they sounded good 15 years ago and they still sound good in 2017.

I feel that if I have more time to go to the beach surfing it will have a much bigger impact on the quality of my mixes, than to buy new converters that I dont really need.

 

[ruairioflaherty]

If you've got some working channels how complicated can this be?

 

[Whoops]

If you've got some working channels how complicated can this be?

PCB probably with 3 or 4 layers, all SMD components, no schematics, chips unmarked

Let's see, I will let you know my findings

 

[ruairioflaherty]

PCB probably with 3 or 4 layers, all SMD components, no schematics, chips unmarked

Let's see, I will let you know my findings

PCB - very unlikely to be your issue so it doesn't really matter how many layers it has

SMD - if you are not comfortable working with SMD a DIY repair is not going to happen

Schematics - again with working channels you should be able to trace out what's what using a scope and multimeter.  If the problem is on individual channels it's likely to be something "simple" like a mechanical solder joint fault or a bad cap and very unlikely to be in the more complex digital and Micro sections of the board.

Chips unmarked - a pain for sure - Gearslutz thread says AD16X has ADC CS5381 or CS5361.  I'd start with the data sheets and evaluation boards for those chip sets.  There is nothing new in this realm, there will be analog buffers, input conditioning etc.

Confirm PSU, data, clock and analog audio input pins on a working channel. Then feed a working a broken channel the same signal and start tracing from the input XLR or DSUB and see where you lose signal or where differences become apparent.

 

[Khron]

Unmarked chips? I thought that was a strict "trademark" of bottom-of-the-barel stuff coming out of the cut-rate outskirts of Shenzhen :-\

But if even the renowned "big boys" are pulling stunts like these... <sigh>

 

[Whoops]

PCB - very unlikely to be your issue so it doesn't really matter how many layers it has

SMD - if you are not comfortable working with SMD a DIY repair is not going to happen

Schematics - again with working channels you should be able to trace out what's what using a scope and multimeter.  If the problem is on individual channels it's likely to be something "simple" like a mechanical solder joint fault or a bad cap and very unlikely to be in the more complex digital and Micro sections of the board.

Chips unmarked - a pain for sure - Gearslutz thread says AD16X has ADC CS5381 or CS5361.  I'd start with the data sheets and evaluation boards for those chip sets.  There is nothing new in this realm, there will be analog buffers, input conditioning etc.

Confirm PSU, data, clock and analog audio input pins on a working channel. Then feed a working a broken channel the same signal and start tracing from the input XLR or DSUB and see where you lose signal or where differences become apparent.

Hi Mate

I was talking about tracing the circuit and the schematic not only repair it

thanks for the tips

 

[ruairioflaherty]

Hi Mate

I was talking about tracing the circuit and the schematic not only repair it

thanks for the tips

Ah! Sorry. Well, the schematics would be great for component identification but as you have working channels it should be possible to figure out. The design won't deviate from the AD data sheet very much.

 

[DerEber]

I sometimes have HF clicking during playback when I turn my DA16x on.
After switching the unit Off and On again it disappears. (Most of the time)
Anyone had this fault here?