Warm Audio WA-19 (AKG D-19 clone), mechanical HPF, phase issue?

[Paul W]

I'm wondering if it might with some luck turn out to be a good mic whether or not it actually imitates the D19 closely.

It's fine with me if they use an off-the-shelf Chinese capsule, as long as it's a decent one that works right with the interference tube.

I've been wondering why there aren't inexpensive variable D type mics, given that the patents must have expired decades ago, and it's perfectly legal to slavishly copy all the functional aspects of an old mic.

 

[Timjag]

Oops never could spell his name


It’s a great book, when I first met Brian some 24 years ago (in studio 2 as it happens), he & Kevin has just embarked on what became this book it took them 15 years to complete , and it’s well worth the read interviews with many engineers who have long since popped off they were also granted full access to studio history records, they’re currently writing another of the full history of EMI studios abbey road

Here’s a Larry Crane review of it

https://tapeop.com/interviews/53/beatles-recording/

 

[Timjag]

I'm wondering if it might with some luck turn out to be a good mic whether or not it actually imitates the D19 closely.

It's fine with me if they use an off-the-shelf Chinese capsule, as long as it's a decent one that works right with the interference tube.

I've been wondering why there aren't inexpensive variable D type mics, given that the patents must have expired decades ago, and it's perfectly legal to slavishly copy all the functional aspects of an old mic.

FWIW this photo of the capusule assembly looks quite similar (if newer and more modern in appearance) to one that is sitting in a box in my studio. Whether it is or not is another question but the over all idea is clearly “borrowed”

 

[Timjag]

Here’s an actual d-19 disassembled

 

[abbey road d enfer]

Oops never could spell his name


It’s a great book, when I first met Brian some 24 years ago (in studio 2 as it happens), he & Kevin has just embarked on what became this book it took them 15 years to complete , and it’s well worth the read interviews with many engineers who have long since popped off they were also granted full access to studio history records, they’re currently writing another of the full history of EMI studios abbey road

Here’s a Larry Crane review of it

https://tapeop.com/interviews/53/beatles-recording/

Ah, OK. Had you cited the book by its title, I would have recognized it immediately.
It's actually sitting on my coffee table (have had it for a long time).

 

[abbey road d enfer]

I've been wondering why there aren't inexpensive variable D type mics, given that the patents must have expired decades ago, and it's perfectly legal to slavishly copy all the functional aspects of an old mic.

One can also wonder why EV has ceased producing the RE15/16, which are wondeful mics. I have a pair od RE16's that I cherish.

 

[amplexus]

I tend to agree, but what Beatles book by Keyhoe?
The problem with the D12 is that nobody really knows what the AKG engineers were pursuing when they designed it.
I believe Warm are not concerned with tis aspect of things, as long as the cosmetics are identical.
And of course, nobody knows how a brand new D12 is supposed to sound.

And this is the crux of it for me with all this stuff.

We now have an entire generation of up and coming, or even fully working engineers having debates about which clone of X piece of gear sounds best and most like the original- who have never used or heard in depth an original unit.

How on earth can Ber****ger sell an LA2A “clone” for under $400? Easy- the target audience has never worked with a real LA2A. And futher to that- they have zero technical understanding of how the unit works and where the corners get cut to deliver such a circuit for relative pennies.

When I hear people wax on about the wonders of this SSL plugin or that SSL 500 series eq clone I have to wonder if they’ve ever spent any tracking or mix time on a real 4K e/g/+. I also have to wonder if they realize when they talk about the SSL “vibe” the the whole thing has no transformers, no fully discrete anything and is filled with very “pedestrian” 5532/4 op amps. If anything the SSL desks always strived to sound like very little.

On the other end of the scale my mind has always boggled at how SSL can sell a G series rack bus comp for $3000+… that much money for a few caps, a couple 553* buffers, tl072’s and two vcas in a box with a nice meter is ridiculous imo

 

[abbey road d enfer]

We now have an entire generation of up and coming, or even fully working engineers having debates about which clone of X piece of gear sounds best and most like the original- who have never used or heard in depth an original unit.

That's correct.
OTOH there's nothing wrong using a clone or a plug-in, as long as they sound good, even if they are a distant cousin of the original?
What I think is wrong is making a so-called fairchild clone and cutting corners like replacing the 6386 with something else or ditching the power amp in the side-chain. Equally wrong is discussing the sound authenticity when there is no golden sample available, as is frequently the case with microphones.

 

[amplexus]

That's correct.
OTOH there's nothing wrong using a clone or a plug-in, as long as they sound good, even if they are a distant cousin of the original?
What I think is wrong is making a so-called fairchild clone and cutting corners like replacing the 6386 with something else or ditching the power amp in the side-chain. Equally wrong is discussing the sound authenticity when there is no golden sample available, as is frequently the case with microphones.

Oh absolutely agree- There are some excellent clones that 'do the thing' but aren't completely in the ballpark that are still amazing sounding and useful units. It's more when you see the heated debates about best 1176's and you KNOW no one involved has been in front of a real blue stripe.

And yes, similarly when engineers get into who makes the best U47 or C12 'clone' knowing that no true production U47 clone exists, and C12's may have been the most inconsistently sounding mic from unit to unit ever produced!

 

[sr1200]

This is the same guy that mentioned in their WA44 video how ribbon microphones LOVE low impedance mic pres... I called them out on it and they doubled down with the BS. (I still got one of the WA44 despite their marketing BS... i love me some big ribbon mics).

 

[abbey road d enfer]

This is the same guy that mentioned in their WA44 video how ribbon microphones LOVE low impedance mic pres... I called them out on it and they doubled down with the BS. (I still got one of the WA44 despite their marketing BS... i love me some big ribbon mics).

It seems that, in spite of doing their best, the mktg dept has not fully succeeded in preventing R&D to do their job.

 

[rock soderstrom]

I still got one of the WA44 despite their marketing BS

Nice microphone - is it any good (for the $) or is it just a standard Chinese motor with a Cinemag transformer and a nice body?

 

[sr1200]

Nice microphone - is it any good (for the $) or is it just a standard Chinese motor with a Cinemag transformer and a nice body?

The motor is actually made in Japan, not china (according to them) and the craftsman ship on it is REALLY nice. The neodymium magnets are super strong and actually pulled my pop filter into the grille. The metalwork is superb as well. A little resonant, but from my 74B and having used 44s its about the same. The mic is a little bit lighter at 6.2 lbs as opposed to 8 for the original BX, but i think thats attributable to them not needing all that iron in there for the magnet. (these are their pics of the internals not mine, but i can confirm this is whats in the production units.

EDIT.. the ribbon material might be from Japan, maybe not the whole assembly.

 

[rock soderstrom]

The motor is actually made in Japan, not china (according to them) and the craftsman ship on it is REALLY nice. The neodymium magnets are super strong and actually pulled my pop filter into the grille. The metalwork is superb as well. A little resonant, but from my 74B and having used 44s its about the same. The mic is a little bit lighter at 6.2 lbs as opposed to 8 for the original BX, but i think thats attributable to them not needing all that iron in there for the magnet. (these are their pics of the internals not mine, but i can confirm this is whats in the production units.

EDIT.. the ribbon material might be from Japan, maybe not the whole assembly.

View attachment 128975

Sounds good! Thanks a lot. I have to test this mic...

 

[garp]

I have to admit that this is quite impressive job, crude simple and at much reasonnable price than the reissues. I can't wait to compare them with my melodium's 42b. Any infos about ribbon thickness ? The corrugation seems very large also (coles type)

 

[rock soderstrom]

I have to admit that this is quite impressive job, crude simple and at much reasonnable price than the reissues.

Yes, I agree. That looks very promising. I'm usually a bit critical of the countless vintage clones, but I could actually get weak here. This seems to be the only possible way for me to get closer to a long-cherished dream. The price is also attractive...I'm curious to hear how it sounds.

 

[ElSmurf]

Thanks @sr1200 for the info. Not a Warm fan but that one looks very interesting for the price.

 

[amplexus]

Also not a Warm fan, but i’ve serviced and re ribboned a few vintage 44’s and it looks like they actually got the motor structure/shape/contours etc. pretty much close enough. Curves aren't quite as smooth but that's likely a minor niggle Good on them for not just shoving another generic coles-type motor in a fancy body.

 

[Snatchman]

I'm interested in the 44 clone. Anyone know what transformer is in the original 44?

 

[sr1200]

I'm interested in the 44 clone. Anyone know what transformer is in the original 44?

Its definitely not like the original as far as i can tell. Neither is the AEA for that matter. The original had an extra tap off the secondary that they used as an inductor (i think they called it a reactor in the manual) where you can change the voicing of the mic (M (music) and V1, V2 (which were 2 roll offs)). AEA didn't add that feature as far as i can tell in theirs and it looks like WARM didn't want to go down that route either. However, being that David over at cinemag was the deciding factor for the transformer, I can't see it being bad by any stretch.