Warm Audio WA-84

[Delta Sigma]

What if you prefer the tants over film or electrolytic?

 

[Emmathom]

Hi Dominic, I thought there are better caps for the signal path than tantalum... I would never think of tantalum in my mic tube pre's or in any small signal path > Muse BP for low volatge or PIO/Film for HV
For instance, J. Hiraga advises and uses Muse BP in his low signal path boards (pre RIAA, Dac, etc)

 

[Migs 31]

For instance, J. Hiraga advises and uses Muse BP in his low signal path boards (pre RIAA, Dac, etc)

@Emmathom
I know many members here express their disdain of Tantalum caps. Apparently prone to failure etc.

But at the same time, a lot of Pro gear has Tantalums in its audio path (or not) and it still sounds good you know.
AKG C414’s, D 224, Neumann U87’s, Neve modules and many more.
Not a capital sin to have a Tant in.

Try it if you really want to change it. If you have a matched pair of mics, record audio with both mics close together. Mod one, re-record in same position and A-B both audio files. Compare - try to be objective.
M

 

[gyraf]

..I'm pretty convinced that tants are important players when it comes to making a sontec clone sound like an actual sontec..

It's not a lot, but it's certainly there

/Jakob E.

 

[Admiral-dk]

I will try to rate my choices here - but beware there are a number of exeptions - depending on application :
Audio :
1) Ceramic NP0/C0G - If the size of the case makes sense + can get them.
2) Electrolytes if I need big values and they are followed by something where leakage isn't critical - usually OpAmps.
3) Filmcapacitors where I connect the Anode of a Tube to the next stage (passive or active). Manually mounted.
As most of my Production stuff is guitar pedals - NO Filmcapacitors, as they usually degrade really Badly in a Reflow-Oven.
4) Tantalum - when I need a big value and the above isn't an Option - like leakage + they will see about a third of their rated DC Voltage over them.
I would NEVER use a Tantalum if it will see zero Vdc. - as it will distort badly and sound ******.

Power Supply :
1) Electrolytes.
2) Unless the size is small enough to consider Ceramic SMDs.
3) Tantalum - if it makes sense - this can be in relation to price / avaliable parts (defenitely a reason during Covid and for some time after).

Oh - and in repair situations - I NEVER change a good Capacitor ...!!!.... no matter the type. If the value and ESR is good and I don't have any leakage that give me problems. And just to be clear : I change a lot more Filmcapacitors than I change Elelctrolytes in old Tube gear - simply because they leak current into the next stage, and this can destroy the Tube that comes after .... Of cause old Oil- or Paper- capacitors are a lot worse (like what you find in old Teisco Amps).

So why do I recomend not changing the Tantalun in your Microphone - there isn't any room for one that will be an improvement. The Electrolytes you keep on suggesting might work as well as the original Tantalum in this application - but I have a hard time seeing them as an improvement. The Transformer might not care much about any DC Current through it in this application or it might react just as bad as those old Tradania wonder ones did.
In this regard I recomend listening to Jakob E. as he has much, much more experience than me, in regard to Line and Microphone Level Transformers - like how they sound and if they distort in a good or bad way

I also admit that sometimes it better if you make your own experiences - simply to learn - but keep an open mind, like did it truely make a difference or is it just because people tell you it will do so

Per

ps I didn't recomend 1µF 50V electrolytes in your application - it was an example from my previous work.

 

[Emmathom]

I will try to rate my choices here - but beware there are a number of exeptions - depending on application :
Audio :
1) Ceramic NP0/C0G - If the size of the case makes sense + can get them.
2) Electrolytes if I need big values and they are followed by something where leakage isn't critical - usually OpAmps.
3) Filmcapacitors where I connect the Anode of a Tube to the next stage (passive or active). Manually mounted.
As most of my Production stuff is guitar pedals - NO Filmcapacitors, as they usually degrade really Badly in a Reflow-Oven.
4) Tantalum - when I need a big value and the above isn't an Option - like leakage + they will see about a third of their rated DC Voltage over them.
I would NEVER use a Tantalum if it will see zero Vdc. - as it will distort badly and sound ******.

Power Supply :
1) Electrolytes.
2) Unless the size is small enough to consider Ceramic SMDs.
3) Tantalum - if it makes sense - this can be in relation to price / avaliable parts (defenitely a reason during Covid and for some time after).

Oh - and in repair situations - I NEVER change a good Capacitor ...!!!.... no matter the type. If the value and ESR is good and I don't have any leakage that give me problems. And just to be clear : I change a lot more Filmcapacitors than I change Elelctrolytes in old Tube gear - simply because they leak current into the next stage, and this can destroy the Tube that comes after .... Of cause old Oil- or Paper- capacitors are a lot worse (like what you find in old Teisco Amps).

So why do I recomend not changing the Tantalun in your Microphone - there isn't any room for one that will be an improvement. The Electrolytes you keep on suggesting might work as well as the original Tantalum in this application - but I have a hard time seeing them as an improvement. The Transformer might not care much about any DC Current through it in this application or it might react just as bad as those old Tradania wonder ones did.
In this regard I recomend listening to Jakob E. as he has much, much more experience than me, in regard to Line and Microphone Level Transformers - like how they sound and if they distort in a good or bad way

I also admit that sometimes it better if you make your own experiences - simply to learn - but keep an open mind, like did it truely make a difference or is it just because people tell you it will do so

Per

ps I didn't recomend 1µF 50V electrolytes in your application - it was an example from my previous work.

Ok ok Per... some rules are really gold ones like "I never change a good capacitor" and you're right
I'm gonna leave this mic as it is...
FYI, in my mic pre, in the signal path between tube 1 and 2 I use Wima MKP10 or PIO russian (values are 150nF & 470nF)
MKP10 are a good value for money and prices rise (to hell) if you tend to very good (excellent) film caps like Janzten, EVO Oil, etc (let's forget about Duelund, Audyn, Clarity Caps, and many more out of my purse)
A high-end cap review :
https://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html

 

[Emmathom]

Hi gentlemen,

One of my Warm Audio WA84 pair works poorly or rather alternately... a few times it works well and delivers the same sound and level as the other, but more often it generates a big roaring sound, like an storm in the distance when connected to +48v... The circuitry is poorly assembled and so are the solders. I can't read the ref. on the fet because it's half engraved half written Warm Audio is definitely not a serious brand (WA84 pair is sold at 700€ !)

I think it could be the fet... or a capacitor but not the transformer (no other parts left then).

I found a paper saying the fet is BF245 and another one which says you can replace BF245 by MPF102 or J113 (both in my stock but no BF245 that's why I'm asking)

Regards

 

[RuudNL]

..I'm pretty convinced that tants are important players when it comes to making a sontec clone sound like an actual sontec..

It's not a lot, but it's certainly there

Geoff Tanner (Neve) always warned not to replace tantalum capacitors with aluminium ones.
"Those tants aren't there without a reason", he used to say...

 

[tomas.borgstrom]

Geoff Tanner (Neve) always warned not to replace tantalum capacitors with aluminium ones.
"Those tants aren't there without a reason", he used to say...

If you have a unit from the 70's or 80's were all the electrolytics in the signal path are tantalums the reason is that they performed better than aluminium back then. That's not the case anymore BUT they still have som benefits so if you have a circuit with a mixture you should probably keep the tantalums. And of course, if you want the same sound as the original unit keep the tantalums.

 

[Disco Volante]

It's my impression that tantalums got their bad rep from being used as decoupling on power rails, where their tendency to fail short would be, well, bad...
I've also seen quite a few PSU electrolytics blow up in older gear though... Usually covers the entire machine in gunk and kills the rectofyer, if not the PT too..