Warm Audio

[AusTex64]

My comment was more a general statement about Asian sourcing than Warm Audio. I have no relation to WA and have not even tried any of the gear. I will say I think he sells it too cheap, and I told him so. But he's happy with what he has, so what do I know?

I suggest asking Bryce about that noise though, I think he would want to know.

 

[dirtyhanfri]

I've seen a pair of their WA76 in a local studio which were bought as they hit the market, they were almost new, like 6 months or so. One of them had a dead VU Meter and the other one had the Input pot broken.

Selling at that prices it's obvious you're not paying the best manufacturing process in China or elsewhere. Maybe he's doing a great business profit-wise, but I wouldn't be so proud bringing those products to the market...

It's more or less OK to sell clones at low scale, but selling rip-offs with low quality build at those low prices doesn't make any good on customer or other companies which spent money on developing new products.

If a child can get 'that 312 preamp every Gearslutz is talking about' for 250€, why bother in look for another 'not 40 years old and heard ad nauseum' preamp?

Not trying to blame Bryce, who I've never met and surely is a nice guy, just thinking loud about this business model.

 

[bluebird]

Selling at that prices it's obvious you're not paying the best manufacturing process in China or elsewhere. Maybe he's doing a great business profit-wise, but I wouldn't be so proud bringing those products to the market...

It's more or less OK to sell clones at low scale, but selling rip-offs with low quality build at those low prices doesn't make any good on customer or other companies which spent money on developing new products.

Awe, I think that's a little critical. I'm sure he put a lot of blood sweat and tears into those products. There's always some bumps in the road when a first or second run of products goes out. I think he's giving a lot of artists and engineers who normally couldn't afford decent analog gear a chance to get their hands on something cool.
He's also giving Cinemag a significant boost in production and thats a local company about 15min from my house.

At my old repair job I came across a Mercury mic pre that was built exactly like the warm stuff. Cinemags and everything. I think this pre was going for $3500 or more. I just couldn't believe the price. There are a lot of boutique company's who sell gear for big prices, some are worth it and some are not.
Warm seems to be shaking up the market a bit, perhaps making the over priced guys a little nervous. He's not doing anything different than a company like Chandler...except maybe using better transformers.

I don't know Bryce either. I was just interested in if he got his start here. I've been here a long time and its exciting to me when people cross over from DIY to a successful small business as I am trying to do it myself.

 

[gyraf]

Am I wrong in believing that WarmAudio is a subsidiary of Alto Music?

Jakob E.

 

[Rocinante]

I dont think he's attached to alto like that.
Umm I have the wa76 right in front of me.  They're nice. They are comparable to the rev d and hairball's I have. Same with the 312 clone.
Bryce is a businessman not an engineer.  He found a niche in a  market. He says he can sell stuff for so cheap by selling a lot of units but that he doesn't make very much per unit.
You know IGS has a few pieces out that look like GDIY projects.

 

[Jonte Knif]

I find it actually fun to see what happens. Way too many companies have been making copies of old stuff, either because unable to design something themselves or because of just finding it easier to follow the crowd. Either way, they are not worth of respect or success. Warm Audio and similar companies are just the first phase, next phase will be Chinese factories selling their own stuff, probably all copying old stuff and all companies in the west just making copies will have to find a bit more innovative way or fade away.

 

[JohnRoberts]

If some old design was that good they never would have stopped making them.

While I was at Peavey I was guilty of participating in a "retro" (not clone) design. We made a tube preamp and a tube compressor, using old school technology to get a share of that fashion trend.  The Peavey pieces were well regarded (and made in USA) but eventually dropped as not a good fit for the brand (peavey customers are very value conscious ).

Indeed the Chinese contract manufacturers have long been envious of the higher profits margins their customers earn from selling branded products. Hon Hai the contract manufacturer who builds a lot of Apple SKUs just bought Sharp (Japanese) to get more of the profit margin pie, and put their capital to good use.

JR

 

[MicDaddy]

If some old design was that good they never would have stopped making them.

Maybe in some cases, but surely not in all... sometimes the bean counters cannot "justify" continuing to make something that really was that "good" but not that "profitable".

My entire business model depends on the fact that Mfrs will abandon their products and customers while there is still demand.

 

[JohnRoberts]

If some old design was that good they never would have stopped making them.

Maybe in some cases, but surely not in all... sometimes the bean counters cannot "justify" continuing to make something that really was that "good" but not that "profitable".

My entire business model depends on the fact that Mfrs will abandon their products and customers while there is still demand.

There are kids today buying vinyl, like it's some new better idea. I won't even debate the technical merits of that.

I've always found profit to be useful in business.  I always thought my kits were pretty good, but when customers could buy assembled (in Japan) units for less money than my kits cost, my kit business went into decline (ask heath kit).

More recently I've watched some friends running a very high quality analog console business get the wind taken from their sails (sales?) by cheap digital consoles (I tired to get them interested in digital without success)..

Customers are fickle about fashion, while value usually sells. Modern digital audio generally wins most price/performance competitions. 

JR 

 

[MicDaddy]

So those in the vinyl business, let's assume they're doing well, are not better off for picking up what someone left behind? What's wrong with that?

 

[JohnRoberts]

So those in the vinyl business, let's assume they're doing well, are not better off for picking up what someone left behind? What's wrong with that?

There's nothing wrong with it... it is a niche retro-fashion business...

I wouldn't advise our grand children to study vinyl recording in college as a stable future career choice, even though it may be hot at the moment. Lots of old production gear coming out of mothballs. Ask yourself why it was retired, and why it won't go away again.

JR

PS: I am a crappy salesman, so I avoid businesses that require hard selling with thin price-performance benefits. Vinyl looks like a step backwards measured that way (more expensive and lower performance).

 

[AusTex64]

I dont think he's attached to alto like that.
Umm I have the wa76 right in front of me.  They're nice. They are comparable to the rev d and hairball's I have. Same with the 312 clone.
Bryce is a businessman not an engineer.  He found a niche in a  market. He says he can sell stuff for so cheap by selling a lot of units but that he doesn't make very much per unit.
You know IGS has a few pieces out that look like GDIY projects.

I am curious to see how the "sell lots of units at low margin" thing works out for WA with the tube gear they are now selling from a service and support standpoint. It's one thing to sell solid state API clones, but quite another to sell fickle tube gear.  So far I'm guessing his warranty costs have been pretty low with the solid state stuff.  Curious to see how that plays out with the toobs.

 

[Spiritworks]

More recently I've watched some friends running a very high quality analog console business get the wind taken from their sails (sales?) by cheap digital consoles (I tired to get them interested in digital without success)..

JR
[/quote]

APB??
I'm using their board in my home studio. Wonderful piece. They should also have leaned towards a recording console, rather than just a live board.
And I love your meters on the main buss.

 

[JohnRoberts]

More recently I've watched some friends running a very high quality analog console business get the wind taken from their sails (sales?) by cheap digital consoles (I tired to get them interested in digital without success)..

JR

APB??
I'm using their board in my home studio. Wonderful piece. They should also have leaned towards a recording console, rather than just a live board.
And I love your meters on the main buss.

bus,,,, 

Yes, I've known and been friends with them for decades. JP (the P in APB) was even a customer of my old kit company back in 70s-80s.

When Peavey bought Crest  those guys were the Crest Console division. Several years later that core of the Crest console division spun out and formed APB.

I tried to drag them kicking and screaming into the digital age, I saw the tide coming,

My digitally controlled analog Automatic mixer project with them (never completed) was a bridge product. Digital processing, but using an analog audio path to keep the faithful old "analog" customers happy. Unfortunately the price-performance of digital consoles offered a compelling feature set that was hard to dismiss. In the course of developing my digitally controlled analog mixer, I was sorely tempted to drop in a few CODECs and just make it all digital.

JP is no slouch around an audio path and still active doing audio projects with companies.

JR

 

[Rocinante]

I dont think he's attached to alto like that.
Umm I have the wa76 right in front of me.  They're nice. They are comparable to the rev d and hairball's I have. Same with the 312 clone.
Bryce is a businessman not an engineer.  He found a niche in a  market. He says he can sell stuff for so cheap by selling a lot of units but that he doesn't make very much per unit.
You know IGS has a few pieces out that look like GDIY projects.

I am curious to see how the "sell lots of units at low margin" thing works out for WA with the tube gear they are now selling from a service and support standpoint. It's one thing to sell solid state API clones, but quite another to sell fickle tube gear.  So far I'm guessing his warranty costs have been pretty low with the solid state stuff.  Curious to see how that plays out with the toobs.

You and me both. I haven't picked up the la2a clone (i have me a D-LA2A which is my favorite piece) but i can't quite wrap my head around how they are profiting. $900 is pretty cheap considering.

 

[ruffrecords]

Outsourcing is nothing new. Back in 1980 I started a bew job and bought myself a TI calculator. On the back it said, made is Mexico.

Cheers

Ian