Which Preamp for BIG vocals?

[Lowfreq]

Hi eveyone,

Just another question about preamps.
I'm tryin to decide on which of the DIY preamp kits to start on,
and i have a few questions.

Now i have never had the pleasure of using anything like a neve,
or an api etc, as i just use my bedroom studio, and my own
small budget. (so i've never heard the colours of how they sound)
However, when i listen to some commercial CD's i have noticed that
some vocals sit in the mix and sound nice, but then there are some
vocals that sound a lot larger than life....real Big and open. :thumb:

I'm going through a two channel mytek in a delta1010lt at the moment, and my main vocal mic is a RODE K2(not really pro, but fits in the budget).

I know that vocal sound is made up of many things, talent,preamp,comp,
mixing etc etc, but i'm mainly looking at the pre right now.

options are JLM 99v, SCA (any of the options), or a G9.
now after blahing on a bit, which preamp do you guys think will be the best for me to choose. I know soundguy loves his JLM, and his review
makes me favour that so far.

Whatta y'all think :?:

Steve

p.s. sorry if this is in the wrong forum, couldn't decide where it should go

 

[CJ]

That might have to do more with the actual mixing process, how loud the vocal track is in relation to the rest of the music.

If you are tracking a real screamer, you want a micpre with a lot of headroom. Especially if you are using a condenser mic.

Adjust your choice of DIY micpre's to your budget, parts on hand, and building experience. If I read you right, this would put you in the transistor camp. Specifically, dropping a black plastic cube into a box with some transformers and being very happy with the results.

If your really into it, you can build your own output transformer for the black cube, but you would need to get some 625EI M6 laminations and wire from somebody, which can be a hassle.

 

[Lowfreq]

Thanks CJ

Yeah, i'm pretty sure that the whole mixing thing is probably what influences the the sound the most.

As for my experience. Pretty much a newbie, but i've nearly finished a Gyraf GSSL, and that has been pretty easy so far. Got a good undertsanding of the basics of electronic theory, and have got my soldering sorted.

I do like the idea of the JLM or SCA as they are kits, so the whole part hunt, wont be as bad. Also i kinda thought the whole tube mic needs to go into a solid state preamp(well, from what iv'e heard).

Mainly my own vocals(kinda smooth, nan raspy) but, have a few clients, so good all rounder. But not many screamers. (my flatmates are happy about that. ha ha)

am i headin in the right direction?

 

[Milkmansound]

I have heard that the SCA Jensen clone is nasty for vox - but I can not confirm this cause I never heard it for myself :razz:

 

[Lowfreq]

Yeah I've good things about it too, like it made some other pre-amps sound bandwitdth limited in comparison. But I've never heard it either

 

[JustinS]

Hey Steve,

The rule that you should only run tube mics into solid state pres is a little bit of a myth... tube mics & pres run the whole spectrum from super clean / accurate to super "coloured" - & even "coloured" covers a lot of ground from super soft to aggressive. Matching your mic into your pre is more a matter of working out what will complement rather than hard & fast rules.

On to your actual question :grin: - I've never heard the Seventh Circle 990 preamp but it's the same basic circuit as used by John Hardy in one of his pres, and they sound great. I wouldn't call them fat, but really natural / real with just the right amount of "weight" to them. Tim's version uses different transformers - so it will sound different, but he certainly isn't skimping on them, Lundahls & Cinemags are really good.

I know Dave absolutely loves his 99V's from JLM, heck he convinced me to get some. I've dealt with Joe a bunch of times now, ordering these, talking to him about some Q8 stuff & getting some power supplies. He's been very easy to deal with & very quick to send things out. I still haven't finished my 99V's but I'll keep you all posted... should be finished in the next 3 weeks or so (hopefully :grin: )

Justin.

 

[Lowfreq]

Thanks Justin

The more i read around here, the more i seem to be picking up about how the whole transformer thing effects sound, as well as the whole op-amp, curcuit design thing too. Rather than just tube vs solid state.
I guess as time goes by, and i've built some stuff, i'll get to hear what everyone is talking about, and know what different pieces sound like. :green:

I think any pre kit that, i build is gonna be a big step up from the budget stuff i'm using anyway :thumb:

 

[JustinS]

Yeah Steve,

Transformers... mmmm... Well, its just about time to get down from my soapbox... but my final piece of advice - just start something! Anything from SCA or JLM is going to sound great & you'll have a great time doing it!

Justin.

 

[Category 5]

[quote author="Milkmansound"]I have heard that the SCA Jensen clone is nasty for vox - but I can not confirm this cause I never heard it for myself :razz:[/quote]

I have a pair and I can't imagine a single source that wouldn't sound awesome through them.

I am using the Hardy opamps and the Lundahl input with a Cinemag output tranny.

I couldn't live without any of the SCA pres...but if I had to have only one it would probably the J99.

Shane

 

[omeiko]

I think an obvious choice for big vocals would be SCA N72. I have an API and a 990 style preamps but they are 'big' in different manner than a neve pre.
Neve has a sound that can be even too big in the lows.
I use it a lot on vocals.

However, I don't think that preamps have that big an influence on the sound what they say on the internet. Microphones are more important in my opinion.

Okko

 

[tony dB]

how about building a G9 and be a happy man?
You could use it track way more then just vocals tru it, and since it's a valve design, having BIG vocals would be covered!

just my 0,02 ?

Tony

 

[rlantis]

IMHO, an SCA (Seventh Circle Audio) combo kit w/case is not only a good starting place, but also a good value, considering the following:

-provides a space in which multiple and diverse preamps can be accessed, including even some "none SCA" types.
-allows the capability for a variety of styles/sounds of preamps (up to 8 per rack)
-the SCA versions of several of the most highly respected preamps are all very high quality, and for practical purposes could be (arguably) considered virtual sonic equivalents (depending upon how you build them).
-each type allows lots of flexibility for modification and experimentation. Given the technical ability, one could achieve whatever preamp sounds are desired.

I think that if you had a selection of SCA style pres available to you, then the only thing(s) that could prevent you from getting the sound(s) you want are things outside the sphere of preamps (such as mics, recording medium, room, your talent & experience, and so on).

 

[DrFrankencopter]

I'd suggest going for something in the Neve vein....SC is cool if you want a kit, or if you're a die-had DIYer just build up a 1272 clone (that's what I did).

My Neve pre's see more use than any of my others (also have Great River MP-2, Langevin DVC, and Peavey VMP-2). They have a cool vibe.

Next up for me though is API's....

Cheers,

Kris

 

[jrmintz]

The fact is that all of the preamps mentioned are excellent, and like everything, which one you prefer in a given situation you won't know until you try. That's why I think an assortment is ultimately the best plan. In the short term any of them will get you started. I agree that acquiring a decent assortment of mics will give you more useable variety for the buck with any good preamp.

 

[Guest]

There as a great thread which I printed of but can't find on line at all..
Can't even remember where it came from

But it talks about how somebody can hear transformers, preamps pushing things to the back of the mix, opamps "spitting", hard and hard distortion and how these came about because of different designs and topologies

I will try and find it again.. but don't hold out much luck...

 

[jrmintz]

I remember that post - it was soundguy, don't remember the thread though.

 

[ddt]

It's this one, there's only one post with the word "krakle" in it... :grin:

http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=1440&highlight=krakle

Cheers,
Dan

 

[Lowfreq]

Wow, great article :thumb:

Thanks for all your information guys. I'm definitley gonna get started on one of those preamps real soon (once i get this months pay cheque).

I apreciate all your efforts in describing the sound too, and i'm well aware that it's probably like tryin to explain the taste of apples and bananas to someone who has only ever eaten meat and rice their whole life :shock: mmmmmm new flavours..........

eventually i would like to build quite a few of the different pres so my ears can learn what i've really only read about.

I have the same problem with choosing ice cream too. I know i'm gonna love them all, but which one will be my favourite?? mmmmmmmmmm

thanks again

Steve