Which projects?

[SebCarr1982]

Hi All,

So, my name's Seb and I've been lurking here on and off for some time, and am looking at taking on a couple of projects but, honestly, it's such rich pickings these days I am totally spoilt for choice. I'm bad at making decisions at the best of times...

Now I've done lots of research and searching - so this isn't a case of "who makes kit x/where do I buy y" - but one of "What on earth do I build first?" and well, I always like talking about this sort of thing before jumping in.

I'm not a complete novice; I've built a few stompboxes (various homebrew distortion, shonky octaver), an Ampmaker SE-5a (single ended 5w valve guitar amp), and an Oakley TB3030 (Roland TB303 synth clone-ish - which is currently lurking in my parents' garage, broken - but soon to be fixed).

I want some bits to augment my home recording setup (Mac, Logic, Apogee Duet), and am very much a fan of getting the sound right on the way in. To that end, I think an interesting pre, EQ, and compressor must be pretty high up my list.

My first thought is Neve. 1074/1084 alikes. I've actually never used a Neve anything, but they're so steeped in audio folklore that I feel I should. Which begs the question which 1073/1084/1290? EZ1073 looks great, but lacks a low pass which is something I find really useful when recording distorted guitars. EZ1084 looks great and is fully featured, but takes up a whole rack on its own, and I'm really short on space (Well, more to the point, the girlfriend will kick off if I fill the flat with large boxes. To the extent that 1u half racks are right on the money, but I can't find a source for them in the UK). The Neve EQs also cost a big chunk o' money to build. Are they worth it?

I'm also thinking a channel of Pultec with no gain makeup (the Duet has clean pres that can do that bit no worries). I'd happily point-to-point or breadboard such a thing.

For compressors... LA-2a, 1176, Sta-Level, Neve, SSL... Arrrrrgh!!! The Drip boards look lovely, and there's something so fabulously over the top about them, I'm tempted to wait for his take on the 1176 (again, space. 3u of Sta-Level is a thing of beauty to me, and "stupid expensive noisy clutter" to the girlfriend.

Sooo, anyway, I welcome your thoughts one and all. Even if they are "Just make up your own damn mind, man!" or similar.

Seb

 

[Meathands]

Do you have a 500-series rack?

 

[SebCarr1982]

No, I don't. I had looked at those, but the entry cost is just huge. It may work out in the end (particularly with the 51x stuff, with the extra voltages) but making a mix of Neve, other solid state and valve projects, everything will end up needing a different PSU anyway. So while I love the 500 idea, I don't think it's for me.

 

[Meathands]

Cool... I ask because there is so much you can do with the 51x format--tube stuff included. Startup costs are prohibitive, but if you  divide the $800 by the number of different units you can power and house, it's actually much cheaper than racking everything.

If I were in your position starting out today, I'd buy a couple of Igor's Rackit kits and put them in a 1RU case with a +/-24v, +/48v PSU. Then you've got Neve EQ's and pre's, tube stuff, 1176, SSL comp, etc, to choose from for stuffing it. Once you get hooked (and you will) you can move up to a 51x rack and still have everything swappable and in the same modular format.

 

[SebCarr1982]

Hmm, I hadn't seen Rackit before, and it is intriguing, but for me the 500 series doesn't quite make sense. Rackit looks great for a couple of modules, but for a bugger setup you end up duplicating the regulators, etc. and at that point obviously a proper rack and power supply makes more sense. But the big 51x racks are so expensive in the UK with the power supply, and bearing in mind that most of the 500 series projects that interest me are double wide, you only fit 5 or 6 of them into the case. Then it ends up at £800 split between 5-6 units - and that'd pay for a power supply and enclosure for each. I can see where 500 series works well, and for people who chop and change their setup a lot it must be wonderfully flexible - but there are always compromised (cut feature sets or limited room for transformers, etc) that you don't get as much with standalone projects.

And even if I did go 500, it wouldn't solve the question of which Neve style pre, or EQ, or what compressor, as there's loads of choice there too!

I'll keep it in mind though...

 

[SamRyan]

I went through the same thoughts as you, and ended up with a 51x. I'm UK too (Guildford) and it cost me just over £500 without the PSU case (gonna build/hack my own). I see it as a decent investment to sort out all future power problems and provide good expandability that I can possibly turn into a modular desk if i get the opportunity.
Cemal does a good service from Glasgow for UK customers; the upfront cost is not that bad.

 

[grantlack]

if you're a kit fan, 51x is fantastic.  if you like a little more Y after your DI, racking has the potential to be a little more personalized/versatile.  though i will say that dan (dmp) did a fantastic UA 1008 with some parts from jeff, so there's certainly plenty of room for creativity in the format.  i'd have happily stayed on the 51x train if i wasn't busy chasing digital controls down a rabbit hole.

 

[SebCarr1982]

Hmm, okay, I'll revisit the 51x idea. before deciding anything. But that still doesn't solve the "which kit" issues. I know this isn't gearslutz, but surely someone here has tried more than one supplier of boards for similar projects and figured X sounded better than Y, or the same for less money, or Z was a pain to stuff.

Like Drip - those boards look lush, but the boards are sometimes five times the price of alternatives. In the end, things like transformers seem to have a bigger impact on build cost - but, all things being equal, are they works of art to be hung on the wall, or are these the route to audio nirvana? As much as I enjoy making things (and pouring over parts catalogues, and assembling BOMs...) if I spend £500 for a big pile of suck i'll be somewhat annoyed!

Sam, I like your modular desk idea. I have no space for such things right now (sold a huge Allen and Heath for buttons as I had nowhere to put it  ) but my desk at work is littered with sketches of passive summing buses with a dedicated two buss EQ, buss comp, monitor controller, matrix routing, and headphone amps... a 19" square modular home studio summing/mixdown station. Some day...

 

[Kingston]

If you are expecting the look and design of a PCB board somehow influences sound of equipment you are starting your DIY endeavor in the completely wrong end.

This really isn't gearslutz. Time to un-learn all the awful teachings and preconceptions of that place. You are now getting into electronics and we can actually verify and test everything, unbunk all the stupid myths circulating around audio engineering world wide.

Granted, there's an awful lot of painting-by-the-numbers around here, and you will see some popular myths being repeated from time to time. But the least you can do is to mentally start from scratch and at least try to leave all the gearslut lore behind. When in doubt, build it and test it. It's the only way.

 

[SebCarr1982]

Haha, you mean to tell me that red solder mask doesn't sound warmer than green? 

Well that changes everything.

 

[Meathands]

Kingston makes a good point: if you know something about the original design a DIY kit is based on (Neve, API, etc.), then you should be able to research how "good" the DIY version will sound right on this board. Does it use the same circuit? Are the same components still available? What about transformers? Those questions are more informative and are more likely to get an answer hear than which one sounds better.

For example, which API 312 board offered here sounds the best? You could listen to some schmoe like me who's built a couple of them, or you could take a look at the circuits, what iron they accept, etc. Not that you aren't doing that already, but know what I mean?

 

[SebCarr1982]

I get what you mean. But you could take two boards using the same schematic, same components, and one could be a solid performer. The other could have horrendous routing, and be much worse for it. Although if that were the case, I'm sure I'd see a few threads along the lines of "X's APINeveSSL-alike - major hum/distortion issues" etc.

But your point is well taken. I mean, I don't buy CDs based on reviews in newspapers or magazines. I have no idea what the reviewer's taste (or lack thereof) in music is. One person's "Best Mic Pre EVER!" is another's clean and boring or coloured and smeary.