Why are Weston VU's so expensive?

[outraged]

I have a 4 channel Weston VU meter bar and I was trying to find a decent price to sell it for and started noticing people selling single small Weston VU's for over $100 all over reverb and Ebay.

Are they really worth more? is Is it just a collector thing?
Anyone know how much a fair (for all) price for a rack size 4 channel Weston VU bar would be?

Thank you for your time.

 

[gridcurrent]

Are they really worth more?

not in my opinion.  many vintage Westons have open coils.

is Is it just a collector thing?

Weston was part of the committee that established the standards for the VU.
old timers preferred them for whatever reason.  the custom Columbia consoles had Westons.
when Studer wanted to go big time with multi-track machines circa 1971,  the A-80 was fitted with Westons,
arguably to enhance the image of quality (the electronics' trim-pots were Allen-Bradley but that is another story).
Try to get top dollar/euro for a Blue Stripe with some funky meter.

 

[emrr]

They're worth more IF they are good.  Easy enough to put some audio to them and test.  They don't make  the really big ones anymore, and the movement is correct as opposed to most cheapo's. 

 

[Gold]

not in my opinion.  many vintage Westons have open coils.Weston was part of the committee that established the standards for the VU.

NBC developed the VU standard with Weston. When they were happy with the meter they measured it and wrote the VU spec. The spec of course doesn’t cover all the aspects of the Weston VU meter. It has been argued that a Weston is the only true VU meter.

 

[gridcurrent]

according to Jay McKnights paper dated August 21, 2006  citing the IRE  report of January 1940;
the "New Standard Volume Indicator was a joint development by the Columbia Broadcasting System, National Broadcasting Company, and Bell Telephone Laboratories.

 

[Gold]

True and Weston made the meter. I have the original paper. I’ll see if I can dig it out. Weston was located in northern NJ so was convenient to Radio Row and the Bell Labs building as well as the original NBC building.

 

[cyrano]

Weston made some pretty amazing stuff. Look what "Applied science" picked up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UPJ2O2zR5k&t=6s

BTW is there any way documented to test for ballistics?

Testing sensitivity and such should be pretty easy. But ballistics?

 

[Gold]

BTW is there any way documented to test for ballistics?

Testing sensitivity and such should be pretty easy. But ballistics?

For ballistics I think just the integration time is the spec. That’s why the VU meter conisour likes Weston’s. The ballistics are the best. They are very sensitive. They do small movements very well and seem to be able to superimpose small movements within large deflections.

 

[cyrano]

Thanks, Paul.

Small movements should be about quality of the movement's bearings, I guess?

Not an easy thing to measure.

 

[gridcurrent]

not dissing Westons but 3 major mastering rooms on the west coast have been very selective in using Triplett VU's.  In my opinion, they are "fast".
ballistics of any quality VU is a topic.
API/LFE meters claim to be in accordance with ANSI standard C16.5-1954 but to my eye are the slowest of any (Scully 280 for example).
Sifam admits not meeting the "Dynamic Characteristics" clause.

 

[abbey road d enfer]

Testing sensitivity and such should be pretty easy. But ballistics?

Counter and reflective light detector.

 

[abbey road d enfer]

Small movements should be about quality of the movement's bearings, I guess?

Not only. A moving-coil meter is a 2nd-order resonant system; its characteristic frequency can be adjusted for "quickness" and its damping factor for limitation of overshoots. Optimization is a combination of mechanical and electrical efforts.

 

[Gold]

I’ve never used a Triplett VU meter.  Im sure they are great. They are still in business too. I’m using Sifam VU and mechanical PPMs currently.  After a few years of using them I’m going to switch to the giant Weston’s and an RTW plasma PPM.  I like the Weston’s better. I thought I’d give the mechanical PPMs a shot but I like the plasma better.

I’m a VU meter snob but not so much of a snob that only Weston’s will do.

 

[cyrano]

Not only. A moving-coil meter is a 2nd-order resonant system; its characteristic frequency can be adjusted for "quickness" and its damping factor for limitation of overshoots. Optimization is a combination of mechanical and electrical efforts.

Thanks Abbey. Forgot about the air dampening vanes inside.

I'm almost grokking it. I'll be measuring my VU's shortly.

 

[ruairioflaherty]

not dissing Westons but 3 major mastering rooms on the west coast have been very selective in using Triplett VU's.  In my opinion, they are "fast".

What rooms?

I work out of Dave Collin's incredible Northward room and he uses Tripletts.  I have to admit that as a digital kid (I came up on blackfaced ADATs!) I never really used VUs but in the last year they have become vital for me.  I wonder if there is something better than Triplett? (knowing Dave the answer is no but I am ever curious).

 

[ruairioflaherty]

Not only. A moving-coil meter is a 2nd-order resonant system; its characteristic frequency can be adjusted for "quickness" and its damping factor for limitation of overshoots. Optimization is a combination of mechanical and electrical efforts.

Has anyone ever put a VU meter movement into a feedback loop?   

 

[abbey road d enfer]

Has anyone ever put a VU meter movement into a feedback loop? 

It was common practice for some type of measurement instrumentation, using a feedback coil.; it's now obsolete, superseded by digital displays. Never been applied to VU meters in such form, to my knowledge, but NFB based on back-emf is part of many PPM drivers.
The principle is basically driving the coil with a negative-impedance source

 

[PRR]

> Weston made the meter. I have the original paper.

http://www.aes.org/aeshc/pdf/chinn_a-new-svi.pdf

Damping and ballistics are about the mass and the magnetics (not bearings or air). The sensitivity and damping of the Weston movement were state-of-the-art for meters which could be shipped without re-set-up. (Far more sensitive lab-meters were shipped taken-down and your lab-tech had to assemble them on a solid bench and not move again.) This SotA probably has not moved much.

 

[outraged]

Thank you so much for all the valuable info. This is the bridge I have -

Anyone have a fair (for all) price I should ask for this? I don't want to be an asshole and insanely overcharge this.