Woke Madness

[ruffrecords]

I still don't understand quite what the Woke movement is all about (apart maybe from re-writing history) but for me it reached its peak of madness today. The front page of our daily newspaper screams that the BBC has decided to deleted Rule Britannia from the Last Night of the Proms specifically because of the line "Britons, never, never, never shall be slaves"

Good God. Now it is wrong to be patriotic! Where's the one finger Emoji when you need it?

Cheers

Ian

 

[living sounds]

As a German I have grown up to be wary of any forms of nationalism or patriotism. And I always thought pride should be something you feel for your own achievement (or for somebody close to you) only.

I'm happy to live in a country that has a working healthcare system, rule of law, freedom of expression, but I understand this to be a consequence of many environmental factors that played themselves out over time. Rationally thinking, it is completely absurd to feel personal pride for it.

The British history of Colonialism, as I hope you already know, is nothing to be proud of (as for many other countries during that time, though the British Empire takes a special place). But that is entirely beside the point here. The singing of the anthem was cancelled to minimize the spread of Covid-19:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/aug/24/culture-secretary-oliver-dowden-enters-row-over-axing-rule-britannia-from-proms

So nothing to get wo(r)ked up about.

 

[L´Andratté]

Although I may come froma totally different angle than you, I can relate to your annoyance.

I think more and more people realize that we are inmidst a worldwide "cultural revolution",
(imho a great loss of depth and multitude, whatever else it might be).
We need to realize that it is about time to position ourselves in this process, to influence it´s
outcome, for that we need new concepts, since the old (like "patriotism" or "solidarity")  seem so out of touch with what is happening (elites siding with elites across all borders, the masses competing for existence e.g.).

Sadly there seems to be only little real dialogue, only monolgue that gets louder and louder in pos. feedback loops. Better to stay away from media, online and other, and social networks. Might make you a more solitary person, but also more focused and intent, not having undisclosed parties f...ing around with your brain!

 

[iturnknobs]

I still don't understand quite what the Woke movement is all about (apart maybe from re-writing history) but for me it reached its peak of madness today. The front page of our daily newspaper screams that the BBC has decided to deleted Rule Britannia from the Last Night of the Proms specifically because of the line "Britons, never, never, never shall be slaves"

Good God. Now it is wrong to be patriotic! Where's the one finger Emoji when you need it?

Cheers

Ian

While I understand what you are saying, another black man was shot in the back yesterday in our country. It's not about re-writing history. It's about making sure that unfortunate history doesn't continue to be celebrated in displays of "pride". Your country and ours were built on the backs of slaves. Have some compassion... or buy a slave. I have heard they grow big with adrenochrome supplements. Leaning right is WRONG.

 

[abbey road d enfer]

As a German I have grown up to be wary of any forms of nationalism or patriotism. And I always thought pride should be something you feel for your own achievement (or for somebody close to you) only.

I agree very much with you.

Rationally thinking, it is completely absurd to feel personal pride for it.

I hate people who are proud to be XXXX (substitute whatever nationality, race, demonymity, club membership...). Many people have done so little with their life they are proud of what others have done.*
Because of acculturation, they are proud of whatever tradition they are the result of. Many people are proud og having legalized abortion, but more countries are proudly opposing to it.

*I always have a laugh when soccer supporters come back from the match and say "we won". I ask them which position they played.
It's generally enough to make them shut up. Of course they think I'm stupid, but at least they leave me alone, for fear of catching it.

 

[JohnRoberts]

While I understand what you are saying, another black man was shot in the back yesterday in our country.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/video-shows-police-kenosha-wis-shooting-black-man-back-n1237819

Indeed the video shows him shot multiple times while physically resisting a police officer and apparently ignoring the police officer's instructions. More details have not been revealed (yet) but the police were responding to a domestic incident (somebody called the police).

A little advice, if you don't want to be shot by a police officer don't resist and try to get into your vehicle to drive away. A motor vehicle can be considered a lethal weapon in certain circumstances. 

It's not about re-writing history.

or pre-judging police unfairly because of a popular social justice narrative

It's about making sure that unfortunate history doesn't continue to be celebrated in displays of "pride".

If we have a systemic problem it is people ignoring police authority. Resisting arrest does not make this guy some kind of innocent victim (hero?). George Floyd was intoxicated on fentanyl, this guy will not get an autopsy. He is reportedly in hospital, out of surgery and stable. Recovering from wounds that he could have very easily avoided by simply cooperating with the police.

No police officer want to invite such a sh__ storm on themselves. I will not prejudge why he resisted the police officers but IMO if we have a systemic problem it is this widespread disrespect for police fueled by social media (and modern politics. )

Your country and ours were built on the backs of slaves. Have some compassion... or buy a slave. I have heard they grow big with adrenochrome supplements. Leaning right is WRONG.

not very nice... or very clever.

There is real slavery still going on in multiple regions of the world (including sex trafficking right here in the US), how about some empathy for today's actual slaves.  Don't be played by the racial grievance industry for political influence and gain. I worry that we will see more like this from future random incidents that can be framed to inflame more rioting. If the police officers in the George Floyd trial get lenient treatment due to extenuating circumstances I could easily imagine social justice warriors inciting new riots. (I hope I am wrong)

JR

PS: [whataboutism warning] There seems to be little mainstream media outrage about the 5 YO white kid shot and killed in his NC yard. Apparently it doesn't fit the media narrative of white police officers murdering black victims.

 

[living sounds]

I hate people who are proud to be XXXX (substitute whatever nationality, race, demonymity, club membership...). Many people have done so little with their life they are proud of what others have done.*
Because of acculturation, they are proud of whatever tradition they are the result of. Many people are proud og having legalized abortion, but more countries are proudly opposing to it.

*I always have a laugh when soccer supporters come back from the match and say "we won". I ask them which position they played.
It's generally enough to make them shut up. Of course they think I'm stupid, but at least they leave me alone, for fear of catching it.

While I can understand the sentiment I don't think hating people is a usefull response. Some of it is just human nature (people are tribal to varying degrees, use inductive reasoning, prefer simplified answers etc.), some of it is narcissism that fuels this ignorance.

I can indulge in it to a certain degree every 2-4 years in soccer (world cup, UEFA cup), although I feel alianated by the level to which people take these things seriously.

The cultural transformation towards more of an universalist viewpoint that is underway for some time now (and against which the primarily older, whiter and less well educated people are railing these days) needs to be accompanied by an economic transformation towards more inclusiveness and less egotism. People that are well cared for and don't feel left behind have less need to feel superior in some other way.

 

[rob_gould]

The front page of our daily newspaper screams that the BBC has decided to deleted Rule Britannia from the Last Night of the Proms specifically because of the line "Britons, never, never, never shall be slaves.

Ah, yes - an 8 week long showcase of classical music of extraordinary depth, breadth and quality and just two songs seem to have half the country frothing at the mouth.

Regardless of the reasons for the lyrics not being sung, Rule Brittania is an anachronism and it's fair that there should be a discussion about whether it's appropriate to sing a song which is not just about, but is actually a celebration of, British colonial history.

 

[crazydoc]

There seems to be little mainstream media outrage about the 5 YO white kid shot and killed in his NC yard. Apparently it doesn't fit the media narrative of white police officers murdering black victims.

Of course not - he was killed by a neighbor (who happens to be black), not by police. A complete non-sequitur. Kids get shot and killed all the time - it's not news, it's just people with guns. Of course people are going to get shot and killed when there are more guns in the USA than the total population.  People are going to be crazy or pissed, and pick up a gun in easy reach and shoot someone or themselves - it's human nature.

Calling it an “epidemic,” scientists announced an alarming increase in the number of firearm deaths of school-age children in the USA: 38,942 in those 5 to 18 years old from 1999 to 2017, according to a study released Thursday.

"It is sobering that in 2017, there were 144 police officers who died in the line of duty and about 1,000 active-duty military throughout the world who died, whereas 2,462 school-age children were killed by firearms," said Charles Hennekens, the study's lead author from Florida Atlantic University's Schmidt College of Medicine.

According to the study, of the nearly 39,000 deaths, there were 6,464 deaths in children ages 5 to 14 (average of 340 deaths per year), and 32,478 deaths in children ages 15 to 18 (average of 2,050 deaths per year).

The cause of deaths in school-age children was 61 percent from assault; 32 percent suicide; 5 percent accidental; and 2 percent undetermined, the study says.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/03/21/gun-deaths-school-age-children-study/3231754002/

 

[Gold]

Indeed the video shows him shot multiple times while physically resisting a police officer and apparently ignoring the police officer's instructions.

I don't see him  physically resisting arrest. I see him walking away from the police. The story is he was trying to break up a fight that he was not involved in. He was shot in the back getting into a minivan with his three kids. Interviews with neighbors said he was a longtime resident and was involved in neighborhood watch to prevent crime. I'd like to hear the audio. I bet that would clear some things up.

 

[Winston OBoogie]

I still don't understand quite what the Woke movement is all about (apart maybe from re-writing history) but for me it reached its peak of madness today. The front page of our daily newspaper screams that the BBC has decided to deleted Rule Britannia from the Last Night of the Proms specifically because of the line "Britons, never, never, never shall be slaves"

Good God. Now it is wrong to be patriotic! Where's the one finger Emoji when you need it?

Hey Ian, 
Firstly -  The original poem's author, a Scot named James Thompson, was an abolitionist.  The lyrics of Rule Britania aren't imperialistic. They weren't meant as a celebration of military conquest, but to celebrate an independent spirit, prosperity and freedom from tyranny.

Secondly -  The BBC were never *not* going to be playing it on "Last Night...".    The only difference this year is that there will be  no audience present due to Covid.  Because of this, it's no longer a 'sing-a-long' so,  it's just the orchestra.
And this is exactly how it was originally played at the very beginning of the Proms, the 'sing-a-long' just happened over time. 
Next year, covid permitting, it'll be back to the way everyone alive today is familiar with.

Cheers mate, hope you're well

 

[ruffrecords]

Hey Ian, 
Firstly -  The original poem's author, a Scot named James Thompson, was an abolitionist.  The lyrics of Rule Britania aren't imperialistic. They weren't meant as a celebration of military conquest, but to celebrate an independent spirit, prosperity and freedom from tyranny.

Secondly -  The BBC were never *not* going to be playing it on "Last Night...".    The only difference this year is that there will be  no audience present due to Covid.  Because of this, it's no longer a 'sing-a-long' so,  it's just the orchestra.
And this is exactly how it was originally played at the very beginning of the Proms, the 'sing-a-long' just happened over time. 
Next year, covid permitting, it'll be back to the way everyone alive today is familiar with.

Cheers mate, hope you're well

I do hope so. Even Boris has slammed the BBC for its 'wetness' over this. I don't know about you be we always sing along at home. I don't see why they could not have someone there to sing the versus and the rest of us could sing the chorus at home. There is a movement to get Vera Lynn's version to number one in the charts so the BBC will have to play it. I for one will be downloading it.

To be honest I do not understand this fixation for blaming people for things that happened hundreds of years before they were born. I don't expect the Italians to take a knee because the Romans invaded the UK and dragged many Brits away into slavery. Equally, I don't want any Scandanavians to apologise for raping and pillaging the east coast of England, or the French for 1066 and centuries of serfdom (slavery) for the ordinary English folk.

Cheers

Ian

 

[rob_gould]

I do hope so. Even Boris has slammed the BBC for its 'wetness' over this. I don't know about you be we always sing along at home. I don't see why they could not have someone there to sing the versus and the rest of us could sing the chorus at home. There is a movement to get Vera Lynn's version to number one in the charts so the BBC will have to play it. I for one will be downloading it.

To be honest I do not understand this fixation for blaming people for things that happened hundreds of years before they were born. I don't expect the Italians to take a knee because the Romans invaded the UK and dragged many Brits away into slavery. Equally, I don't want any Scandanavians to apologise for raping and pillaging the east coast of England, or the French for 1066 and centuries of serfdom (slavery) for the ordinary English folk.

Cheers

Ian

Perhaps you'd feel differently if those events were still causing you to be subjugated in  modern day society, depsite the fact they happened hundreds of years ago.

 

[Winston OBoogie]

Perhaps you'd feel differently if those events were still causing you to be subjugated in  modern day society, depsite the fact they happened hundreds of years ago.

I agree with that fully.
The UK needs to start educating its kids as to the full extent of the atrocities committed in the name of the old Empire and Colonialism.  The same with the US as regards its beginnings.    I'm certainly not for erasing history, but some things just belong in museums or textbooks along with a complete and accurate history.

Sure, we can't blame the sons for the sins of the fathers.  But if  some in our society still feel subjugated by being openly reminded of those sins (and who are we to say they should *not* feel subjugated), then the onus is on us to make that right. 


As for 'Rule Britannia', the original meaning of the lyrics have unfortunately been misappropriated/reinterpreted  by some from its original intent as written by an abolitionist.   
Another example but in reverse:  The US national anthem 'Star Spangled Banner'  (using the poem by Francis Scott Key) neatly omits the dodgy 3rd verse which contains a definite pro-slavery intent: 

"No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave"

This  concerned Scott Key's disdain for the black slaves of the south who were escaping to fight with the British in return for their freedom. 

 

[s2udio]

To be honest I do not understand this fixation for blaming people for things that happened hundreds of years before they were born. I don't expect the Italians to take a knee because the Romans invaded the UK and dragged many Brits away into slavery. Equally, I don't want any Scandanavians to apologise for raping and pillaging the east coast of England, or the French for 1066 and centuries of serfdom (slavery) for the ordinary English folk.

Ian

Yes exactly "A Fixation"  of the what I  call the "Educated Unlearned"

if those events were still causing you to be subjugated in  modern day society, depsite the fact they happened hundreds of years ago.

Perhaps you'd feel differently if the, so called "WOKE" subjecated  individuals started arriving on your street, disrupting and
Rioting , burning down your hard worked for business,..........  to the ground, and then trying to shame you for it.
These indoctronated  individuals don't even know their history.
Sorry .....I agree to strongly disagree

 

[iturnknobs]

Perhaps you'd feel differently if the, so called "WOKE" subjecated  individuals started arriving on your street, disrupting and
Rioting , burning down your hard worked for business,  to the ground, and then trying to shame you for it.
These indoctronated  individuals don't even know their history.
Sorry .....I agree to strongly disagree

Maybe it would stop if there were change, but there hasn't been. Police let the white male who shot a protester walk by with a semi-automatic rifle while the crowd screamed to have him arrested because he had shot people AND THEN ANOTHER PROTESTER WAS KILLED. He(the shooter) lives less than two dozen miles from my home. I can rebuild a business. I can't bring back the lives lost last night, that the police virtually allowed, and jerks like that live all around me. This is the real life. Excellent display of human selfishness. Please refer to my signature tag.

 

[rob_gould]

Yes exactly "A Fixation"  of the what I  call the "Educated Unlearned"

Perhaps you'd feel differently if the, so called "WOKE" subjecated  individuals started arriving on your street, disrupting and
Rioting , burning down your hard worked for business,..........  to the ground, and then trying to shame you for it.
These indoctronated  individuals don't even know their history.
Sorry .....I agree to strongly disagree

That's a long list of behaviours and beliefs to ascribe to an unnamed, otherwise undefined imaginary group.

Who are these people? Do you know them? Have you met them? Are you certain they exist?

 

[Winston OBoogie]

Who are these people? Do you know them? Have you met them? Are you certain they exist?

Again, I agree. 
It's true that BLM protests have been co-opted by rioters in places, but that doesn't negate  the legitimate reasons the non rioters  have for protesting.
Similarly - I wouldn't say that all Trump supporters are racist.  But I'm pretty comfortable in saying that  most racists probably voted for Trump. 

 

[Tubetec]

Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lnRyXTjQgg

There'll always be an England 

Doesnt 'woke' just mean muck spreading, stirring up  shite or taking offence via social media for the sake of popularity ?

 

[Whoops]

To be honest I do not understand this fixation for blaming people for things that happened hundreds of years before they were born. I don't expect the Italians to take a knee because the Romans invaded the UK and dragged many Brits away into slavery. Equally, I don't want any Scandanavians to apologise for raping and pillaging the east coast of England, or the French for 1066 and centuries of serfdom (slavery) for the ordinary English folk.

Cheers

Ian

I completely agree with you Ian, it's just getting ridiculous and fueled by a present media narrative and misinformed Instagram teenagers.

Like JR I also feel it's really dangerous the present attitude of "pre-judging police unfairly because of a popular social justice narrative".
There's white people, yellow people and pink people being shot everyday by Police in a lot of different situations and for a lot of different reasons, but that doesn't make the news...