Woke Madness

[Whoops]

Maybe it's not true in Portugal, but it is in the US. 

Neither Ian's first post, neither any of my posts were related to the US.

Some people can only have an Heliocentric view on subjects and always think any subject relates to the US, when it was not the case and I believe it was not Ian's intention in the first post where it's actually related to the UK and to the Woke in general terms.
It would help if some people were shown the World Map

Heliocentric is something I only like in Helios consoles, so I'm out

Best Regards

 

[Winston OBoogie]

Might have helped if you'd indicated that Whoops.  Given the posts that came directly prior to yours, it seemed you were.

Anyway, having a Heliocentric view is good I think, especially since so much of foreign policy is interlinked.  I don't just keep up on UK news, I also care what happens in Portugal, and Germany, France, Israel,  and the US (my son lives there so I have a vested interest), and...  and.,  etc., etc.

FWIW., my first post on here *did* directly address Ian's and concerned the UK and that whole non story. 
But fair enough. 

Peace.

 

[boji]

I'm also happy to identify as Antifa, just as the tens of thousands that landed on the Normandy Beaches in WWII did.

While I deeply respect your resolve/courage to put yourself at the front line to fight for that which you believe in,  I do not trust that the militarization of progressive thought will transform conservatives into democrats, or make centrists out of partisan fanatics. Perhaps that is none of your concern?
For my idealized version of activism, it tries for something that approximates 'love in action'; making kindness in word and deed the principal gesture- especially towards those least deserving of it- and I want to believe it sends out more ripples of positive change into the world than combating hate, lies, and conceit with alienation, ridicule, and judgment.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I don't see him  physically resisting arrest. I see him walking away from the police. The story is he was trying to break up a fight that he was not involved in. He was shot in the back getting into a minivan with his three kids. Interviews with neighbors said he was a longtime resident and was involved in neighborhood watch to prevent crime. I'd like to hear the audio. I bet that would clear some things up.

https://thefederalist.com/2020/08/27/police-recover-weapon-from-vehicle-of-wisconsin-shooting-victim-jacob-blake/
Reportedly they found a knife on the drivers side of his car.

I do not believe in trail by media...

I will wait for the justice system to resolve this.

JR

 

[JohnRoberts]

Right on. After Obama was elected I had a patient tell me during an exam, "We've got to get that n*gger out of the White House." There's a lot of those folks in here in northern California (same ignorant trumpsters that won't wear masks), and I guess they figure all honkeys think alike.

The worst racist I ever encountered was in Cambridge MA back in the 60s... there are not as many today as there were back then, but it takes decades (generations) to remodel human perception. We have already made a lot of progress but still work to do.

JR

 

[JohnRoberts]

Of course not - he was killed by a neighbor (who happens to be black), not by police. A complete non-sequitur. Kids get shot and killed all the time - it's not news, it's just people with guns.

It would be news but it does not fit the social justice narrative (i.e. "racist white cop kills innocent black victim". )

Of course people are going to get shot and killed when there are more guns in the USA than the total population.  People are going to be crazy or pissed, and pick up a gun in easy reach and shoot someone or themselves - it's human nature.

Don't blame the gun, blame the human who pulled the trigger.

My weapon hasn't killed anybody yet (including while I was serving in the army). Perhaps I am an exception?

Calling it an “epidemic,” scientists announced an alarming increase in the number of firearm deaths of school-age children in the USA: 38,942 in those 5 to 18 years old from 1999 to 2017, according to a study released Thursday.

"It is sobering that in 2017, there were 144 police officers who died in the line of duty and about 1,000 active-duty military throughout the world who died, whereas 2,462 school-age children were killed by firearms," said Charles Hennekens, the study's lead author from Florida Atlantic University's Schmidt College of Medicine.

According to the study, of the nearly 39,000 deaths, there were 6,464 deaths in children ages 5 to 14 (average of 340 deaths per year), and 32,478 deaths in children ages 15 to 18 (average of 2,050 deaths per year).

The cause of deaths in school-age children was 61 percent from assault; 32 percent suicide; 5 percent accidental; and 2 percent undetermined, the study says.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/03/21/gun-deaths-school-age-children-study/3231754002/

aha "science"....

JR

 

[crazydoc]

aha "science"....

JR

Sometimes science is bullshit, but bullshit is never science - it's just bullshit. Too bad most people can't tell the difference.

 

[hodad]

Reportedly they found a knife on the drivers side of his car.

True or not, it still doesn't justify what the police did.  A guy is going into his car to get a knife--what immediate threat is that to a cop with a gun, who has plenty of time to step back, out of harm's way, and say, "Put the damn knife down or I'll shoot."  The cop made very poor choices regardless of whether or not Blake was trying to get a knife out of his car. 


On a completely unrelated note, the irony--no, let's just call it hypocrisy--of your Blue Lives Matter flag is not lost on me.  You're all about the law and order--unless it's the Hatch Act being violated, or someone's lying to the FBI, or obstructing justice, or violating the emoluments clause of the Constitution--then screw the law, as long as the lawbreakers are Republican. 

SAD. 

 

[Winston OBoogie]

While I deeply respect your resolve/courage to put yourself at the front line to fight for that which you believe in,  I do not trust that the militarization of progressive thought will transform conservatives into democrats, or make centrists out of partisan fanatics. Perhaps that is none of your concern?
 

I'm sure you weren't suggesting that my use of military analogy (Normandy Beaches) indicated that I was  advocating any sort of military style action.  So  the only rebuttal I'll make is that Trump and Barr having attempted to label Antifa as a terrorist organisation is ludicrous, and it was with that mindset I made the comment.

Converting partisan fanatics?  No, I'm not concerned with that, I doubt they can be converted. 
A Republican into a Democrat?  Well, we have two issues here:

1/ The issue of inequality in the US justice system is not a Trump/GOP invention, although Trump has certainly not helped in his rhetoric or response to the recent unrest.    But the Democratic VP candidate certainly doesn't have a great record on her CV as far as criminal  prosecutions either so...    No, this is an issue that is embedded deep in the core of the US system and I'd be shouting just as loudly no matter who was in office. 

2/ As far as the upcoming election.  In all honesty, I don't see the US surviving another 4 years of Trump and so I'll do my bit to engage in discussion with folks who are willing.  I do that already, just not on here.  Also, within my means I also send  out what you call 'love in action' but, again, just not on here.  Again though, I've found it a waste of time engaging with partisan fanatics. 
Anyway, if you think I should do more on here then I'm all ears.

Peace and Love. 

 

[Winston OBoogie]

A guy is going into his car to get a knife--what immediate threat is that to a cop with a gun, who has plenty of time to step back, out of harm's way, and say, "Put the damn knife down or I'll shoot." 

There isn't a police force in Europe that would have handled it that way, knife or no knife.

The easy answer would be to say it's complete ineptitude on the part of the US police. 
Except for the countless videos where a caucasion makes an even bigger threat (with knife in hand) and yet is taken in without a bullet being fired.

 

[iturnknobs]

Reportedly they found a knife on the drivers side of his car.

I ALWAYS have a knife on me. I guess the cops can shoot me dead at all times(JR's LAW 2020)... while they let people(WHITE PEOPLE) walk the streets with AR-15s.

I will wait for the justice system to resolve this.

Mighty white of you. I can't imagine what all the protests are about.

This song came out in 1987 and NOTHING has changed.
https://youtu.be/Z7-TTWgiYL4

 

[JW]

Concerning this word "woke" and here in the U.S.

People didn't "awaken" to the JFK assassination, the RFK or MLK assassinations, the gulf of Tonkin incident, Kuwaiti babies being pulled out of incubators, coups all over the world, the telecommunications act, shit being faked in space, 9/11, WMD's, Assad gas attacks, almost everything we've ever learned historically being total bullshit, and now yay, all the outcomes obviously planned WAY in advance regarding Covid, but we're all are somehow "woke" enough to realize cops kill black people. Bravo. . . . Did somebody finally read "the People's History of the US" by Howard Zinn, or is it just that it's in the news? Good job woking. Cops in the US kill all colors of people. It most likely IS true they kill more black people and the prisons certainly reflect the ongoing racism of an unjust system (by design)  but what the news highlights is no accident and isn't some short lived 'makes more money because of sensationalism' stunt. Nor is it a slightly accurate (and slightly biased) 'covering' a 'grass roots' movement. It's deep social engineering. And the outcomes will be no accident. You'll know what I mean when the local police are replaced by the fedarales with no intention of going home any time soon. Then will the "left" still believe that it's a grass roots movement, there's no such thing as the deep state and everything will be fine when Trump is gone, the single person responsible for everything bad happening? In bizarro world "woke" of course means asleep. 

 

[iturnknobs]

Like JR I also feel it's really dangerous the present attitude of "pre-judging police unfairly because of a popular social justice narrative".

No need to unfairly pre-judge the cops:

Kenosha County Sheriff speaking at the lecturn in 2018....

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bet.com/news/national/2020/08/27/kenosha-police-sheriff-s-chilling--racist-comments-about-black-t.amp.html

Wake up.

 

[pucho812]

In the wake of Kenosha,, this has by far been the most concise, and well thought out explanation of the events and the law to date.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=IwAR2izax3xDyySAUMN1LDRMirhBT-qfo-9lIe82dXeI8wd8qFUiWgHy6rKYw&v=NSU9ZvnudFE

 

[iturnknobs]

In the wake of Kenosha, in petticoat to Kyle ritenhouse, this has by far been the most concise, and well thought out explanation of the events and the law to date.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=IwAR2izax3xDyySAUMN1LDRMirhBT-qfo-9lIe82dXeI8wd8qFUiWgHy6rKYw&v=NSU9ZvnudFE

Giving a 17yr old a gun(which you fail to recognize as ILLEGAL) and having a parent take him across state lines to protect something that he doesn't own is CRAZY. Our society has clearly lost its mind. People are trying to justify the Blake shooting because he had a knife and this kid KILLED PEOPLE. If you think 17yr olds walking down the street with AR-15s should be acceptable, our society will self-implode. It's already on it's way... especially since white people can AND BLACK PEOPLE CANNOT.

Wake up.

 

[Winston OBoogie]

If Pucho is worried that Kyle Rittenhouse won't get a "fair" crack at the trial, he needn't.
He is being represented by the law firm used by  Rudy Giuliani with money raised online by Lin Wood along with  an additional $200K  from a right wing christian group.

Meanwhile, I just watched footage filmed on July 1st where Kyle Rittenhouse is shown repeatedly punching a female without provocation.    Nice guy.   

 

[JohnRoberts]

True or not, it still doesn't justify what the police did.  A guy is going into his car to get a knife--what immediate threat is that to a cop with a gun, who has plenty of time to step back, out of harm's way, and say, "Put the damn knife down or I'll shoot."  The cop made very poor choices regardless of whether or not Blake was trying to get a knife out of his car. 

why didn't they think of that... 

Oh yes they did... they told him repeatedly what he should do to deescalate the situation and he disregarded them doing pretty much what they told him not to do.

On a completely unrelated note, the irony--no, let's just call it hypocrisy--of your Blue Lives Matter flag is not lost on me.  You're all about the law and order--unless it's the Hatch Act being violated, or someone's lying to the FBI, or obstructing justice, or violating the emoluments clause of the Constitution--then screw the law, as long as the lawbreakers are Republican. 

SAD.

No, I am all about supporting the police, black, white, and whatever color they happen to be. They IMO are all being unfairly targeted.

Save your partisan talking points for someone who hasn't heard them all (or maybe put them in the talking points thread). 

Yes this is sad.

JR 

 

[pucho812]

Giving a 17yr old a gun(which you fail to recognize as ILLEGAL) and having a parent take him across state lines to protect something that he doesn't own is CRAZY. Our society has clearly lost its mind. People are trying to justify the Blake shooting because he had a knife and this kid KILLED PEOPLE. If you think 17yr olds walking down the street with AR-15s should be acceptable, our society will self-implode. It's already on it's way... especially since white people can AND BLACK PEOPLE CANNOT.

Wake up.

I never said Kyle should  or should not have had an ar-15. Even the video I posted explains that based on the law from an actual lawyer.

 

[pucho812]

If Pucho is worried that Kyle Rittenhouse won't get a "fair" crack at the trial, he needn't.
He is being represented by the law firm used by  Rudy Giuliani with money raised online by Lin Wood along with  an additional $200K  from a right wing christian group.

Meanwhile, I just watched footage filmed on July 1st where Kyle Rittenhouse is shown repeatedly punching a female without provocation.    Nice guy. 

I am not concerned of a “fair trial” watch the video I  posted which explains The law by a  lawyer.

Although I think the burden of premeditated murder will be hard to prove based on all videos that the public can see so far.

 

[boji]

My psychologist friend was elaborating upon some studies he's gone over that show when people are on the political offense, most rhetoric is not intended to persuade opponents, but instead is directed at the author's ingroup to create social pressure and reasons to resist switching teams.  This would explain why someone will post a video and then someone else responds to it in such a way that shows they didn't even watch the video, but are comfortable commenting on it--  it's basically pom-pom shaking for the imagined ingroup audience, not actual conversation or debate with the outgroup.   

Edit: I dislike admitting JR, Matador, and others may be right about partisan talk being ineffectual... for hope of reduction in cross-group tensions I'll keep trying to locate middle-ways.