living sounds
Well-known member
http://www.salon.com/2015/10/29/bill_gates_the_private_sector_is_completely_inept_partner/
Words of wisdom from Bill Gates
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ruffrecords
Well-known member
He obviously has no experience of the pharmaceutical industry.
Cheers
Ian
Cheers
Ian
adeptusmajor
Well-known member
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- 211
salon?
Isn't that the same mag that recently published an article written by a pedophile, trying to garner sympathy and understanding for pedophiles, because they are just misunderstood and harmless? http://www.salon.com/2015/09/21/im_a_pedophile_but_not_a_monster/
Bill Gates?
Isn't that the same guy who has been the right hand of the government in implementing all of the "Orwellian" domestic surveillance and data collection programs. Seems like at his level in the game he would want to do whatever possible to downplay capitalism, maintain his position and keep all other private industry crushed under his boots.
Not that capitalism has ever really existed ever since the gov't decided it would be the referee as well as a player in the game, and since guys like Gates have been able to pay off politicians to garner favor from the referee and end up on the good side of all their spiteful regulations.
Isn't that the same mag that recently published an article written by a pedophile, trying to garner sympathy and understanding for pedophiles, because they are just misunderstood and harmless? http://www.salon.com/2015/09/21/im_a_pedophile_but_not_a_monster/
Bill Gates?
Isn't that the same guy who has been the right hand of the government in implementing all of the "Orwellian" domestic surveillance and data collection programs. Seems like at his level in the game he would want to do whatever possible to downplay capitalism, maintain his position and keep all other private industry crushed under his boots.
Not that capitalism has ever really existed ever since the gov't decided it would be the referee as well as a player in the game, and since guys like Gates have been able to pay off politicians to garner favor from the referee and end up on the good side of all their spiteful regulations.
Bill Gates is a smart guy, but perhaps not as smart as he thinks.
He has done some great charitable work with curing disease in 3rd world countries. He has also influenced a bunch of his fellow billionaires to donate their fortunes to charity with several donating money to Bill's charity, many roll their own so they can control how their money is spent. If Bill really though government was so good at spending (our) money, he'd just give his fortune to them.
I am disappointed in Bill's turn to the Al Gore (global warming) side but he's a software nerd not a real scientist.
I am repeating myself but inspection of longer term temperature charts reveal a repeating pattern that in my judgement explains everything.
There is no dispute that we are in a warming trend , but human activity does not explain all the previous interglacial warming periods (between ice ages). It is the height of human arrogance to believe we are causing this one, and typical political power mongering to try to use this false emergency to control more of the private economy.
Note: Carbon dioxide correlates with temperature swings but this does not mean that it causes it. I am more suspicious of solar output being the dominant mechanism.
The chicken-little arm waving over fossil fuels seems misdirected, and more of a feel good exercise than anything effective. Few scientists even the true believers think government actions will make any difference. I'm glad Bill Gates is not the socialist dictator of the world because he would take us fully down this incorrect road.
Of course don't take my word for it look at the chart, just google earth temperature records for several hundred thousand years, and look at similar charts. While many politicians and scientists look at the same exact charts and see a short term modern phenomenon driving earth temperature so opinions vary.
JR
PS: For those not paying attention to the inside baseball, government is talking about selling millions of barrels of oil out of the strategic reserve over the next 10 years. Why now? I would have applauded this move to influence marginal supply back when oil supply was tight and oil was selling for $140+ a barrel, but now with a surfeit of supply and prices down below $50 a barrel, this seems engineered to maximize pain on the us oil industry. The OPEC oil cartel continues to pump at high levels to squeeze marginal oil drillers out of business, and it is mostly working. Then we have Iran about to start selling their oil. Now the US government is joining the party on the same side with OPEC (WTF?).
I thought it was interesting to see George Soros make huge investments in coal (Yes coal), I would not be surprised to see him pick up some oil industry assets on the cheap after government knocks them down into the dirt too. I guess George is not drinking the Bill Gates kool aid, Soros is a very successful investor. Come the next ice age that oil and coal will be quite valuable.
He has done some great charitable work with curing disease in 3rd world countries. He has also influenced a bunch of his fellow billionaires to donate their fortunes to charity with several donating money to Bill's charity, many roll their own so they can control how their money is spent. If Bill really though government was so good at spending (our) money, he'd just give his fortune to them.
I am disappointed in Bill's turn to the Al Gore (global warming) side but he's a software nerd not a real scientist.
I am repeating myself but inspection of longer term temperature charts reveal a repeating pattern that in my judgement explains everything.
There is no dispute that we are in a warming trend , but human activity does not explain all the previous interglacial warming periods (between ice ages). It is the height of human arrogance to believe we are causing this one, and typical political power mongering to try to use this false emergency to control more of the private economy.
Note: Carbon dioxide correlates with temperature swings but this does not mean that it causes it. I am more suspicious of solar output being the dominant mechanism.
The chicken-little arm waving over fossil fuels seems misdirected, and more of a feel good exercise than anything effective. Few scientists even the true believers think government actions will make any difference. I'm glad Bill Gates is not the socialist dictator of the world because he would take us fully down this incorrect road.
Of course don't take my word for it look at the chart, just google earth temperature records for several hundred thousand years, and look at similar charts. While many politicians and scientists look at the same exact charts and see a short term modern phenomenon driving earth temperature so opinions vary.
JR
PS: For those not paying attention to the inside baseball, government is talking about selling millions of barrels of oil out of the strategic reserve over the next 10 years. Why now? I would have applauded this move to influence marginal supply back when oil supply was tight and oil was selling for $140+ a barrel, but now with a surfeit of supply and prices down below $50 a barrel, this seems engineered to maximize pain on the us oil industry. The OPEC oil cartel continues to pump at high levels to squeeze marginal oil drillers out of business, and it is mostly working. Then we have Iran about to start selling their oil. Now the US government is joining the party on the same side with OPEC (WTF?).
I thought it was interesting to see George Soros make huge investments in coal (Yes coal), I would not be surprised to see him pick up some oil industry assets on the cheap after government knocks them down into the dirt too. I guess George is not drinking the Bill Gates kool aid, Soros is a very successful investor. Come the next ice age that oil and coal will be quite valuable.
living sounds
Well-known member
The "Al Gore Side"?
You mean the overwhelming scientific consensus.
What makes you think you are smarter than all the experts?
You mean the overwhelming scientific consensus.
What makes you think you are smarter than all the experts?
ruffrecords
Well-known member
I once attended a rocks and fossils course. The first lesson was all about the various natural cycles that alter climate, from the 11 year sun spot cycle to the precession of the poles, which help to explain the long term progress of geology, the development and extinction of life and the creation of fossils. The lecturer made it very clear in lesson 1 that there are a host of natural factors far more powerful than mankind's puny efforts that affect our climate.
Cheers
Ian
Cheers
Ian
living sounds
Well-known member
Gus said:
Well, yes, it is the culmination of a massive interdisciplinary body of scientific work.
Just follow the data.
http://www.michaelshermer.com/2008/04/confessions-of-a-former-environmental-skeptic/
living sounds said:
Explain why this isn't just the latest warming period (called interglacials because they regularly occur between the cyclical ice ages)?
The world did not have a steady constant temperature for the last several millions of years and only recently start changing... look at the data I posted. You can google that. I didn't have to make up my own temperature data like some do.
The globe has been warming and cooling in semi-regular cycles since long before the politicians invented carbon credits.
JR
PS: I don't know if I'm smarter than all those scientists but I'm probably smarter than the sheeple blindly following them. I don't respond well to calls to authority, and I remain unconvinced that it's somehow different this time.
living sounds
Well-known member
JohnRoberts said:
It's the authority of the scientific method. It very much looks to me like you are following the authority of your tribe (US conservatives) instead here.
So when you lose the argument on call to authority you shift to ad hominum...living sounds said:
How about attacking my actual thesis that this is just the natural temperature fluctuations we have seen before. The data looks pretty obvious to me. As I've shared before CO2 levels were high during previous interglacials, suggesting the CO2 level follows rather than drives the warming.
If you want to, government can still use this natural temperature variation as an excuse to take wealth for redistribution. There will be displacements and even worse after it shifts to cooling. Just be more honest about what they (you) are doing.
JR
dmp
Well-known member
We only have one planet - (no control group) - so it is difficult to draw conclusions, of course.
But yes, it is likely that CO2 levels followed temperature in the past (did not cause temperature change, rather was caused by).
However, what is troubling in the data you posted is the sharp vertical red line on the far right. To have CO2 lead temperature is uncharted waters.
To get even more basic - it is illustrative to think of the 1st law of thermodynamics. What are fossil fuels? The storage term.
It is insane to convert all this stored hydrocarbon energy to products in a blink of an eye (geologically speaking). The opinion it will have no effect on the earth is wishful (and delusional) thinking. After all, the earth will be just fine with rapid and radical changes caused by this perturbation, it is humans that flourish with (and rely on) a stable climate. The past few thousand years have had a more stable climate than typical, geologically speaking, and that has been beneficial to humans. Leave it to people to screw up a good thing. Time will tell.
dmp
Well-known member
Agreed - government funded research has led to many technology developments that were later the basis for business growth. Many are unaware of the wealth created by this. Wise investment, imo.
jasonallenh
Well-known member
I use to get into these arguments all the time, and it's pointless...
Pollution is bad. I want to go fishing and not die from mercury poisoning. I want to swim in lakes. I want my favorite animals to continue to exist. If there are cleaner ways to do things, we should do those things. Everything else is just noise.
Pollution is bad. I want to go fishing and not die from mercury poisoning. I want to swim in lakes. I want my favorite animals to continue to exist. If there are cleaner ways to do things, we should do those things. Everything else is just noise.
dmp
Well-known member
Well said.
Unfortunately it is cheaper & easier to do things when they pollute.
I do not advocate heavy metal air pollution ( lets talk to china about that). They pollute everybody's atmosphere while their citizens probably get the brunt of it. Cheap energy has helped raise their standard of living so a trade-off their leaders accepted. Even they are slowly cleaning up their act, as their citizens get wealthier and no longer tolerate such bad conditions, but still a long way to go.jasonallenh said:
I recall asking my brother (the smart one, who works as a consultant to the power generation industry) years ago, about clean coal. He said it was just impractical economically. A government project to develop clean coal energy was shut down after a decade of bad results. Now the utilities are trying to figure out how to do this on the fly, as emissions standards get tighter. I happen to be a customer of a "clean" (cough) coal power plant, still not making electricity from coal despite huge cost over runs and delays, that I am already paying higher bills for. All I can say is what were they thinking (they didn't ask me, or my brother)?
Oil companies are still flaring off NG in some fields because it is too cheap to bother capturing. The increasing use of NG for electricity generation to save money is reducing the carbon emissions far more than government efforts.
I hated giving up swordfish years ago over mercury threats, I haven't checked that fish lately but eat somewhat safer fish (salmon?) I hope. Big fish that eat smaller fish are notorious for accumulating toxins. Salmon eat lots of plant matter so are relatively safer.
JR
PS: Coincidentally the picture I am using for my current avatar was taken while I was helping my older brother do experiments for his PHD thesis at MIT back in the '60s.
I wrote a long answer then my computer ate it before I finished... maybe I'll try again later... several points that I felt deserved a response. While most of this has been discussed before.dmp said:
JR
living sounds
Well-known member
JohnRoberts said:
It's not an ad hominem, just the most likely explanation for what is happening here.
I won't debate over facts in a field neither of us has any significant expertise, training or credentials in. Any argument you can possibly come up with has been checked and dismissed at least hundreds of times by now. By people around the globe who work full time in a diverse range of scientific areas.
There is no credible scientific opposition to the theory of anthropomorphic climate change. Since the 70s the opposing world view was propagated via a PR campaign by those with financial interests in not adressing the problem.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchants_of_Doubt
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchants_of_Doubt_%28film%29
The very fact that you bring "redistribution" and the evil "government" into the discussion again speaks volumes about the motivations and thought processes involved. This is not really about warming patterns or CO2 or any other facts. This is about the evil communists trying to take your freedom away. And no amount of factual evidence, no matter how overwhelming and well researched it may be can be good enough to allow this.
There's even a scientific term for what you are doing here, it's called "agnotology":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnotology
You hold me in lower regard than I hold you... but what else is new?living sounds said:
I am willing to form opinions based on my meager scientific understanding and decades of following this topic.
In fact an "evil" government scientific official proposed using RICO (anti-rakatering law) to suppress scientific dissent.
"Culturally induced ignorance"... you raise the art of ad hominum to new heights...
Same back at you.. Use you imagination to think what this Agnotist would call you in response. 8)
JR
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