AKG 414 EB

[ricardo]

Just shocked that a 414 could be a mans favourite LDC.

All my recording has been of live performers in good spaces. I haven't done any multi-track at all.  If I put a mike up in a magical hall, I want the sound from it to be magical. If I put one up in a sh*t hall, I don't expect the sound from the mike to be magic.  I may add extra mikes to solve the problem but a main mike that sounded magical in a sh*t hall is, IMHO, suspect.

I understand the need for mikes which flatter singers etc but I don't design mikes to do this.  ie I prize accuracy above all.  Mike Skeet made a recording of a drum kit using a Calrec Soundfield on the original HFN&RR test CD which shows what can be done with 1 mike w/o extra overheads etc.  The Mk4 Soundfield was my baby.

Having said all that, Stock, Waterman & Aitken made many top10 hits in the 80s/90s using the Mk4 for everything.  I never envisaged such heretical use ... 

In the early 80's the BBC asked Calrec to measure the 'new' transistorized 414 cos some of their engineers thought the C12 was better.  I turned it into a "measure every mike I can lay my hands on" exercise.  The 414 isn't perfect.  Bass, though extended, is humped and it has a mid edge I think I can easily recognise.  But this sound has been the sound of BBC announcers since the late 70's.  The BBC use this as a test of accuracy for monitor speakers.  The STC4038, Schoeps & 'new' 414 came out of that test, as "mikes I'd like my designs to sound like".

 

[ruairioflaherty]

Hi Ricardo,

An interesting perspective, we inhabit different worlds I'm afraid.  Although these days I'm 80% mastering 15% mixing 5% recording I've done lots of tracking and I'm always looking for magical, whether the source is magical or not.  That said I was not working in the classical realm.

Did you design the MK4 or are you just an avid user?

To me frequency response is only one part of what a mic is all about and we have the mean to shape frequencies after the fact.  I'm at least as interested in the pattern, how it responds to room/proximity, rejection and how it responds to transients and dynamic events.  I've heard mics that are more honest than my 67 but the 67 tells such a wonderful lie that I always believe it!

 

[ricardo]

Did you design the MK4 or are you just an avid user?

Only 3 people can claim to have designed the Mk4. As Ken Farrar & Clem Beaumont have both passed on, I'll claim all the good bits are mine and the faults were theirs.

IMHO, it was the best mike of the 20th century.  Many engineers feel it was better than later Soundfield product.

I made probably the last production change to the capsule and was rather disappointed that my 30 yr old design is still used by Soundfield Research with its faults unchanged. Clem was my mike mentor at Calrec and Ken was the best analogue designer I know off though we didn't always agree.  His no compromise approach and philosophy, disregarding fashion is what I hope is mine today.

To me frequency response is only one part of what a mic is all about and we have the mean to shape frequencies after the fact.  I'm at least as interested in the pattern, how it responds to room/proximity, rejection and how it responds to transients and dynamic events.

The tetrahedral soundfield approach allows you to have more control over all these than any other system.

I'm really a speaker man and my attitude to frequency response is summed up in
"Absolute Listening Tests - Further Progress" - Fryer & Lee, AES London, February 1980) Paper Number:1567

It's just one of the things you need to get right.  Microphones are easier than speakers cos I can define the performance of a perfect mike.  I still can't do this for a speaker.

 

[ruairioflaherty]

Welcome Ricardo, it's great to have you here.  I came very close to purchasing a MK4 at point in the past when I was doing more recording but it was to much of a stretch financially.

I've heard examples of the Soundfield approach in action and it is indeed an impressive system.  A member here Keith "SSLtech" has use one for years and is a fan.

I'm not an AES member at the moment but I'll purchase that paper tomorrow, I'm interested in your take on things.  As a mastering engineer speakers are crucial to my work.

Again, great to have you here, I look forward to some interesting discussions.  There are some fantastic minds here and then there are people like me 

Bedtime here.

Cheers,
Ruairi

 

[etiefenthaler]

Hi,

thanks a lot for comments and help.

The history of my capsules: I own two akg C414 B-ULS TL and modded them with tims CT12.

I think I am going to try  ioaudios mk47 kit . Max told me the c12 capsule should work after changing a resistor. (80 v)

Maybe the c12 delrin capsule doesen't match best with a tube circuit but I could change those with the CT12.

Cheers

Erich T.

 

[Hank Dussen]

Hey Erich, I own 2 C414EB's and am considering changing the capsules to Tim Campbells.
What's your experience with this change?

 

[ricardo]

Gyraf's G7 (GIC) mike project has a circuit very similar to Debenham Robinson & Stebbings and traditional AKG/Neumann but with modern high quality parts instead of solid Unobtainium.

This is probably the nearest to a kit C12 mike.  I think the EF86 pentode is used in triode mode so a Low Noise double triode could be used for a stereo C24 copy.  But I'm not a hot bottle man so I'll leave it to our gurus to comment on this.

I think this circuit with the DRS capsule is the best approach for those who want to carve their own from solid BS.

http://www.gyraf.dk/

 

[Marik]

IMHO, it was the best mike of the 20th century.  Many engineers feel it was better than later Soundfield product.

Is there any commercially available recording of classical piano (as the hardest instrument to record right) done with that mic, which I could purchase?

Thanks, M

 

[etiefenthaler]

Hi

@ Hank: I post some links with audiosamples so you can make your own opinion

Sax AKG C414 BULS  TL delrin capsule
http://www.flutemusic.ch/mp3/sax%20original.wav

Sax AKG C414 BULS  ct 12 capsule
http://www.flutemusic.ch/mp3/sax%20ct%2012.wav

Cello AKG C414 BULS  TL delrin capsule
http://www.flutemusic.ch/mp3/cello%20original%20cardio.wav

Cello AKG C414 BULS  ct 12 capsule
http://www.flutemusic.ch/mp3/cello%20ct12%20cardio.wav

Flute AKG C414 BULS  TL delrin capsule
http://www.flutemusic.ch/mp3/fl%201%20original.wav

Flute AKG C414 BULS  ct 12 capsule
http://www.flutemusic.ch/mp3/fl%201%20ct%2012.wav


Unfortunately I can not find Gyraf G7 pcbs here on the white/black market and there are lots of dead links on the DIY MIKS here.



Erich

p.s i found this ad here: http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=43816.msg546990#msg546990

shall I pull the trigger on those or would it be easier and sonically better to go with the ioaudiokit mk47

 

[bockaudio]

I made probably the last production change to the capsule and was rather disappointed that my 30 yr old design is still used by Soundfield Research with its faults unchanged.

Are you saying that you made the last production change to the Soundfield capsule which is now being produced by the company, or that you have a 30 year old mic which is still working?
And yes I do understand they currently produce more than one capsule type at this time.

 

[pasarski]

Hi

@ Hank: I post some links with audiosamples so you can make your own opinion

Sax AKG C414 BULS  TL delrin capsule
http://www.flutemusic.ch/mp3/sax%20original.wav

Sax AKG C414 BULS  ct 12 capsule
http://www.flutemusic.ch/mp3/sax%20ct%2012.wav

Cello AKG C414 BULS  TL delrin capsule
http://www.flutemusic.ch/mp3/cello%20original%20cardio.wav

Cello AKG C414 BULS  ct 12 capsule
http://www.flutemusic.ch/mp3/cello%20ct12%20cardio.wav

Flute AKG C414 BULS  TL delrin capsule
http://www.flutemusic.ch/mp3/fl%201%20original.wav

Flute AKG C414 BULS  ct 12 capsule
http://www.flutemusic.ch/mp3/fl%201%20ct%2012.wav


Unfortunately I can not find Gyraf G7 pcbs here on the white/black market and there are lots of dead links on the DIY MIKS here.



Erich

p.s i found this ad here: http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=43816.msg546990#msg546990

shall I pull the trigger on those or would it be easier and sonically better to go with the ioaudiokit mk47

Noticed that the clips with the original capsule are about 1.5db louder than those with the CT12. Compensating this makes the comparison fairer.

 

[LHS]

There's an AMI C12 kit in the works. Hasn't been fully priced yet but could be sweet with Tim Campbell's capsule. Oliver's transformers are well respected.

http://www.tab-funkenwerk.com/id91.html

 

[abechap024]

There's an AMI C12 kit in the works. Hasn't been fully priced yet but could be sweet with Tim Campbell's capsule. Oliver's transformers are well respected.

http://www.tab-funkenwerk.com/id91.html

Looks so sick!! Probably a liitle pricey no?

 

[Meathands]

Yah, the U47 kit was $900. But, as always, compared to the 'real deal'...

 

[ricardo]

I made probably the last production change to the capsule and was rather disappointed that my 30 yr old design is still used by Soundfield Research with its faults unchanged.

Are you saying that you made the last production change to the Soundfield capsule which is now being produced by the company, or that you have a 30 year old mic which is still working?
And yes I do understand they currently produce more than one capsule type at this time.

Yes & Yes.

I can't claim to have designed the capsule.  Almost all good capsules are based on the work of other giants.  But the present Soundfield Research capsule (now made by MB with the original jigs) is as I left it circa 1983 (??) with all its faults & good points.  The only improvement is that MB have supplies of Gold flashed Mylar which I was looking at when I left Calrec but was never used until production moved to MB this millenium.  The distinguishing feature between the final design & Clem's original is that my capsule has no holes on the backplate cover.  There are other important changes that would only be recognised by a condensor mike designer.  This capsule is used in Soundfield Research's more expensive products like the Mk5 & ST450.

They use a MB capsule on the SP200.

I have the prototype Mk4 and it is still working.  If you have an early Calrec Mk4 and it is still in good order, you have probably one of the best mikes of the last millenium and perhaps this one too.  If you have sent it back to Soundfield Research for repair or new capsules, all bets are off.
You will know you have an early Calrec Mk4 cos a full set of engineering dwgs and circuits was supplied with the mike; standard Calrec practice at the time.  AMS stopped this when they bought Calrec.

Marik, Aaron Heller had an early Calrec Mk4 as described above and made many wonderful recordings, which were played on US PBS over 20yrs.  Some of these Ambisonic B-format recordings were on www.ambisonia.com, a public domain hoard of surround recordings.  Unfortunately, the demise of ambisonia.com has left a big void.  If you PM me, I can send you one or two large excerpts.  These are large uncompressed *.AMB files and require an ambisonic player to translate into stereo.  VVMic http://www.mcgriffy.com/audio/ambisonic/vvmic/allows you to choose your stereo decode and crossed fig-8s work well.

For piano and TetraMic, a modern successor to the Calrec Mk4, Paul Hodges has some Contemporary Piano on http://ambisonic.info/audio/paulhodges/others.html  I also recommend the Orfeo Trio recordings by John Leonard on the same website.

 

[etiefenthaler]

one of mine ck 12s got a housing:

http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=41379.360


will do a recordingsession tomorrow.

erich