Behringer MDX2000 internal pics ?

[Gertius]

3rd pic is showing caps

 

[Gertius]

And last one is showing resistors

 

[Gertius]

By the way:
Rossi, you are my hero
I have read like all of your posts about the mdx2000/2100 scattered on all the different forums. Was really fun!
I learnt a lot about VCAs, RMS chips and opamps, and your posts gave me a nice reference to classify the composers I have been getting over time. I have 7 mdx2000s and 1 mdx2100.
My mdx2000s come in three versions, one with the daughterboard and 4558 opamps (I guess very late ones), one with all BE027/37 and BE2000 (guess the regular, middle-of-life ones) and one with all those plus the four caps fitted like shown in my previous post (I guess earlier ones that had more budet for parts heh).
All of them have dbx1252. I did not come across an SSM2120 like henk hinted at.

So Rossi, do you still have your composers? Are you still using them?
henk, are you also still hanging around here? I also enjoyed reading your posts quite a bit. Too bad the pics of your mod are not accessible anymore...

Cheers,
Christian

 

[xefe]

The 2100 does not have that reserved space

 

[analogguru]

Hi xefe,
awesome that there are still people interested in modding the Composers!

I am wondering, why people still spend € 800,-- for a Drawmer DL241 when you can buy a used Behringer MDX2000 for EUR 30,--.  Simply because the Behringer MDX2000 is an exact clone of the Drawmer DL241.  (The MDX2100 is slightly different).

I have 7 mdx2000s and 1 mdx2100.  My mdx2000s come in three versions, one with the daughterboard and 4558 opamps (I guess very late ones), one with all BE027/37 and BE2000 (guess the regular, middle-of-life ones) and one with all those plus the four caps fitted like shown in my previous post (I guess earlier ones that had more budet for parts heh).
All of them have dbx1252. I did not come across an SSM2120 like henk hinted at.

The Behringer BE2000 in fact IS a SSM2120 - only with Behringer printing on it.  (The VCA´s are not used).

BTW, could you make some pictures of the daughterboard ?

analogguru

 

[Gertius]

The 2100 does not have that reserved space

Hm, now that I´m reading through the description of the four caps again, I´m not quite sure I´ve got the right ones.
I sort of puzzled that together on my own (it looks so obvious, right?). Also henk hinted at something similar in this thread before.

I´m wondering because the text you posted, xefe, really relates to the mdx2100s.

 

[Gertius]

BTW, could you make some pictures of the daughterboard ?

As Rossi wrote before, it is not possible to take out the daughterboard without possibly causing some damage.
I could make pictures of the lower side (which is pointing up) and reference the ICs. But I´m not sure how much help that is because you couldn´t say if there are any connections on the top side as well.

The Behringer BE2000 in fact IS a SSM2120 - only with Behringer printing on it.  (The VCA´s are not used).

Ah yeah, also from this thread I figured as much. It also fits with the data sheet of the SSM2120. Thanks for stating that again.

 

[analogguru]

BTW, could you make some pictures of the daughterboard ?

As Rossi wrote before, it is not possible to take out the daughterboard without possibly causing some damage.
I could make pictures of the lower side (which is pointing up) and reference the ICs. But I´m not sure how much help that is because you couldn´t say if there are any connections on the top side as well.

Please do so. It would be of some help.

analogguru

 

[xefe]

I am wondering, why people still spend € 800,-- for a Drawmer DL241 when you can buy a used Behringer MDX2000 for EUR 30,--.  Simply because the Behringer MDX2000 is an exact clone of the Drawmer DL241.  (The MDX2100 is slightly different).

analogguru

this.
i got a copy of a drawmer dl241, wich costs 700€ new, for 35€
i've got both schematics. exact copy except the drawmer uses the ssm2120 where the behringer uses discrete rms detector made with the ca3046. i read somewhere in gearslutz that at that time there was a major shortage of rms detector chips so some manufacturers replicated it some 072's and a ca3046 array. symetrix 501 is another unit with a pair of 072's a ca3046 array for rms detection.

 

[Rossi]

So Rossi, do you still have your composers? Are you still using them?
henk, are you also still hanging around here? I also enjoyed reading your posts quite a bit. Too bad the pics of your mod are not accessible anymore...

Cheers,
Christian

I still own four composers, but I haven't used them in years. These days, I rarely use a compressor for tracking and use software for mixing. I think good software (e.g. UAD stuff) is superior to anything Behringer ever produced. They were useful, when I recorded and mixed analog, but there's really no place for entry level processors in a digital environment.

 

[Gertius]

Hi Rossi,
cool to see that you are still active here!

I think good software (e.g. UAD stuff) is superior to anything Behringer ever produced. They were useful, when I recorded and mixed analog, but there's really no place for entry level processors in a digital environment.

Yeah I guess soundwise you are right (my experience with UAD is very limited).
Comparing it to the ReaComp for example, I found that the Composer is another flavor. In my opinion it´s definitely not as clean as the ReaComp but it was a lot more fun to use.

As I wrote before for me this is all a big experiment at the moment. I want to make the experience of mixing without having to look at a screen (too much). I want to see how that affects my intuition and ability to make mix decisions. Some part is also having immediate access to every parameter and real knobs to turn.

First tests make me quite optimistic, but only in a few weeks I will know if it´s working out for me, or if having 24 channels of cheap compression is ruining the music

Cheers,
Christian

 

[Rossi]

Analog recording certainly is a different work style, but I've adapted to the digital world. It has become essential for me to be able to switch between several projects. As you may or may not know, I'm a major contributor for Sound & Recording Magazine, Germany. So I'm constantly switching between various test scenarios and my own projects.

Also, it's not just about analog vs. digital in absolute terms. Basically you have a certain budget, which you can invest either way. I enjoy having really good front end and monitoring, but past the recording stage I rarely leave the digital realm.

Yes, there is the beauty of real faders and knobs, but on the other hand I don't like the user interfaces of most inexpensive boxes. It is easy to dial in the right kind and amount of compression on an 1176 or LA2A, but much less so on something like a Behringer Composer. So it's really 2 virtual knobs on a classic compressor emulation (e.g. UAD) vs. 11 hardware knobs on an inexpensive VCA-Compressor.

But as always, your milage may vary. Just one thing, though: Don't get caught up in having compression on each channel. In the old days nobody mixed that way. Use less compression and ride the faders instead. It's work, but it's also fun (much more so than writing automation in a DAW).

 

[Gertius]

[quote author=analogguru]
Please do so. It would be of some help.
analogguru
[/quote]

Hi analogguru,
I´ve come around to take the picture of the daughterboard now.
In this post I´ll attach the original one and in the next one the one with the chips drawn in.
I saw from the underside that there are a couple of caps, and also some connections (two sided pcb).

Cheers,
Christian

 

[Gertius]

and with annotations...

 

[Gertius]

Analog recording certainly is a different work style, but I've adapted to the digital world. It has become essential for me to be able to switch between several projects. As you may or may not know, I'm a major contributor for Sound & Recording Magazine, Germany. So I'm constantly switching between various test scenarios and my own projects.

Also, it's not just about analog vs. digital in absolute terms. Basically you have a certain budget, which you can invest either way. I enjoy having really good front end and monitoring, but past the recording stage I rarely leave the digital realm.

Yes, there is the beauty of real faders and knobs, but on the other hand I don't like the user interfaces of most inexpensive boxes. It is easy to dial in the right kind and amount of compression on an 1176 or LA2A, but much less so on something like a Behringer Composer. So it's really 2 virtual knobs on a classic compressor emulation (e.g. UAD) vs. 11 hardware knobs on an inexpensive VCA-Compressor.

But as always, your milage may vary. Just one thing, though: Don't get caught up in having compression on each channel. In the old days nobody mixed that way. Use less compression and ride the faders instead. It's work, but it's also fun (much more so than writing automation in a DAW).

Hi Rossi
thanks for your input!
You do have valid points.

We already have great front end in the studio, like 15 channels of Seventh Circle/UA preamps, Genelec and NS10s monitoring, a UA 2192 and RME converters, great mics, treated room etc.

As I wrote, at the moment it´s an experiment. I feel that my mixes are still lacking, and I want to advance in that field. I read in a lot of places that "it´s the indian, not the arrow", and of course there is truth to that. But it´s also part of the indian´s expertise to know which arrows work best for him Right now I´m in a phase, where I have taken one song and mixed it already like 20 times from scratch, using different approaches (different plugins/DAWs/cheap mixing board) with vastly different outcomes. I´m interested to hear and experience how an all analog mix will differ from the others (recently acquired a D&R Dayner - as I wrote, first tests with limited channels were quite promising). Even if my outboard is not the best stuff to work with, I´m sure there is something to be learned from that as well.
I also plan to rent an SSL room for half a day to mix the song there as a reference for me.
Maybe I will find out that analog mixing is also not my style, or simply not feasible, but then I will know and can stop wondering "what if".

Regarding your comments about riding faders, I´m also planning to do that to ride levels, but having one compressor per channel is more about being able to change the sound/texture for that channel.

Thanks again for your advice Rossi! I feel you mean well and I really appreciate it.

Cheers,
Christian

 

[henk]

Nice to see people still busy with the old nice stuff.........................
After this B* did not build that quality anymore...............

 

[Gertius]

Nice to see people still busy with the old nice stuff.........................
After this B* did not build that quality anymore...............

Hi Henk,
nice to see that you are also still around here!
Unfortunately the pictures of your mod have gone missing from this thread.
Do you still have them floating around somewhere and can repost or send them to me?

Cheers!
Christian

 

[henk]

Yes i was a long time gone because did move from The Netherland(Holland) to Thailand.......
But now i am retired and do have some time............... sometimes...............

The pictures and very nice other stuff(ETI , Barry Porter , VTP ans VCS from Digitech) is back on the server of PRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So many thanks to PRR!!!!!!!
You can find the adres in the META from KUBI with schematics............... somewhere very low on the row......
Did not work for some years and now suddenly is back in the air!!!!!!!!!!
Do have fun with all that nice stuff!!!!!!!!

 

[Gertius]

Found them!!!
That is so awesome, thank you very much!
Glad that the info is resurrected!!!

 

[henk]

Thanks to Gertius i do think now that the mdx2000 with dautherboard is the same as an mdx2100......... but is made cheaper than the mdx2000.......... so Uli did not even had to change the schematic , just some parts and could start up the mdx2100.........
Still do think that they sound great , but did change it for more headroom , so not for studio use but for live use the best way in getting a great sound............. and that is were it is all about!!!!!