Poor Paris
- Thread starter DaveP
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How did 8 terrorists manage to get themselves and suicide vests and machine guns into France?
No-one foresaw this kind of thing happening with the open borders policy.
I just heard from my wife this morning and she had no idea of what had happened within walking distance of Gare de Nord an hour after she passed through, ignorance is bliss I guess
DaveP
No-one foresaw this kind of thing happening with the open borders policy.
I just heard from my wife this morning and she had no idea of what had happened within walking distance of Gare de Nord an hour after she passed through, ignorance is bliss I guess
DaveP
rob_gould
Well-known member
I'm not sure what you mean by tolerated.
It is important from a security perspective to understand how this attack was organised, but on a more general level i think fhe question is what motivates these groups.
It is important from a security perspective to understand how this attack was organised, but on a more general level i think fhe question is what motivates these groups.
totoxraymond
Well-known member
Hi, I do live about 400 meters from one of the restaurant where 18 people were killed.
Actually, I lived all the events through news annoucement. That's a very strange feeling to know that people died just at the other end of the street and you still see groups of people passing by, very peacefully. Completely unaware.
You obviously can't prevent all these events to happen. There will always be maniacs invoking god and killing people. All we can do is to stand or ground, together.
Sorry for my poor english, i didn't sleep much last night.
Thomas
Actually, I lived all the events through news annoucement. That's a very strange feeling to know that people died just at the other end of the street and you still see groups of people passing by, very peacefully. Completely unaware.
You obviously can't prevent all these events to happen. There will always be maniacs invoking god and killing people. All we can do is to stand or ground, together.
Sorry for my poor english, i didn't sleep much last night.
Thomas
Thomas,
Stay Safe, the English in France are 100% with you.
Nous Anglais en France sont 100% vous soutenir, nous avons la même culture et les valeurs, vous n'êtes pas seul.
Désolé pour mon mauvais Français, je ne dormais pas beaucoup non plus
DaveP
Stay Safe, the English in France are 100% with you.
Nous Anglais en France sont 100% vous soutenir, nous avons la même culture et les valeurs, vous n'êtes pas seul.
Désolé pour mon mauvais Français, je ne dormais pas beaucoup non plus
DaveP
sahib
Well-known member
DaveP said:
I hope this never happens. People taking the law into their own hands will only result in more of them getting killed. Plus, this is exactly the purpose of terrorism, to create anarchy within the society. No matter how angry and revengeful we may feel we have to let the law deal with it. Worse law is always better than no law.
This is the return of '70s terrorism that we experienced back in Turkey, and throughout Europe. The difference is that during '70s generally the extreme left wing was running the show and the Islamic groups were second class under dogs. Now the Islamists are running the show. Dealing with it needs deep understanding of the culture in its root. In other words working for a stability in the Middle East. Europe will not be safe without that stability and recent events including the mass immigration proved that once more.
I feel for those who lost their lives and for their families.
I hope this never happens either Sahib.
But there are places in France where there are racial tensions and a lack of integration where this may happen.
France is a symbol of the enlightenment and freedom and as such, it has become the number one target for terrorists who oppose everything that France and the free world stand for.
I wonder how long it will be before the UN acts on this and sends the armies of the free world including Russia to invade, Syria/Iraq to tackle it at source.
DaveP
But there are places in France where there are racial tensions and a lack of integration where this may happen.
France is a symbol of the enlightenment and freedom and as such, it has become the number one target for terrorists who oppose everything that France and the free world stand for.
I wonder how long it will be before the UN acts on this and sends the armies of the free world including Russia to invade, Syria/Iraq to tackle it at source.
DaveP
sahib
Well-known member
DaveP said:
Have we still not learnt from Irak that this will be exactly the very wrong thing to do?
bruno2000
Well-known member
DaveP said:
You answered your own question........
Best, Bruno2000
bruno2000
Well-known member
DaveP said:
The UN will do nothing but run their collective mouths......
Best,
Bruno2000
They expressed similar sentiments after WW1, which was supposed to end all wars, but it in fact caused WW2.
I can see the same thing happening again now. If the west has learnt something from Iraq, it's that it's probably best to leave the Saddams, Gaddafis and Assads in place because the alternatives are always worse.
It seems the Russians learnt this first!It's a dilemma, if you send troops in, then people complain about casualties, if you don't send them in then civilians die instead, there is no magic answer here, only a rock and a hard place.
DaveP
sahib
Well-known member
Dave,
Your analogy with regards to WW2 is wrong.
However, what are we going into Syria for? To get rid of terrorist groups or Assad?
If terrorist groups then support Assad. Which at present only the Russians do.
Assad is not Assad without his gang. You get rid of him, somebody else will take his place.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
That is why I say the solution is in deep understanding of the culture.
Also think about what I meant by saying "worse law is better than no law".
Your analogy with regards to WW2 is wrong.
However, what are we going into Syria for? To get rid of terrorist groups or Assad?
If terrorist groups then support Assad. Which at present only the Russians do.
Assad is not Assad without his gang. You get rid of him, somebody else will take his place.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
That is why I say the solution is in deep understanding of the culture.
Also think about what I meant by saying "worse law is better than no law".
living sounds
Well-known member
Horrible.
First thing the west should do (and should have done a long time ago) is ceasing to support so-called allies like Saudi-Arabia that breed and enable the kind of extremist ideology motivating these criminals.
First thing the west should do (and should have done a long time ago) is ceasing to support so-called allies like Saudi-Arabia that breed and enable the kind of extremist ideology motivating these criminals.
I don't think so Sahib, the armistice in WW1 instead of victory provided the breeding ground for Hitler and WW2.
Our intervention in Iraq did the same thing for IS.
If civilisation still had WW2/Vietnam mentality today, they would simply have carpet bombed IS with B52's into oblivion. We don't do that kind of thing any more because of innocent civilian casualties. Today's asymmetric warfare is still working out the solution to that one. and in the meantime IS is exploiting it's lack of humanity to the full. They have one rule book, we have another.
Best
DaveP
While the bodies are still warm I would like to express sympathy toward, and solidarity, with all who lost family in this recent terrorist attack.
We can re-litigate policy after the dust clears. Hopefully we can at least agree that this current state of affairs isn't desirable.
JR
We can re-litigate policy after the dust clears. Hopefully we can at least agree that this current state of affairs isn't desirable.
JR
My compassion for Paris
One mans freedoms-fighter is another mans terrorist.
I'm not at all justifying these actions. It's terrorism.
I just like to see things in perspective.
I guess the ones doing this will see it as a backlash..DaveP said:
One mans freedoms-fighter is another mans terrorist.
I'm not at all justifying these actions. It's terrorism.
I just like to see things in perspective.
I guess you are thinking of Castro or Menachem Begin who became respected leaders?
Only trouble is, IS is not fighting for freedom here, it's fighting for world domination.
It also depends whether you see the world in relative terms or that there might be absolutes. Most people I know see IS as pretty much evil personified.
DaveP
DaveP said:
Hollande has sealed the border but that is probably a temporary emergency move. The euro zone has been simmering for years, and the recent flow of ME migrants has turned up the heat.
We need a thoughtful long term response, not what we are doing now.
JR
