U47 clone : AMI or IOAudio +Aputis ? First build ! And capsule question, too...

[Pip]

Misha,  You have no test results? Just your opinion.  This is probably why you were booted from the other forum.  Based upon what you wrote above, You have zero understanding of what you talking about, starting with your very 1st sentence.  Having a discussing with a person behaving like a fool, is a waist of time.

Dear Dennise,

your comment is way off....

As a person related to AMI (you are current owner?), you should weigh words much more.
It's not good for the business, that way you can only discourage potential customers - this is of course your decision, but offending other forum member i think It concerns us all!

I'm not sure that you even have any idea what you talking about, from what i know you are not Oliver.
You didn't said anything meritorical on this forum. Only few accusations.
Misha knows exactly what he talking about, he proved that on many posts here.
Also he gaved you merithorical answer, now should be the time for your reply in the same way.
Instead we have really weak, offending, post.

Misha don't have to prove anything to you or any other manufacturer, he can have even opinion based on the fresh air.
But!
AMI should prove with any measurements, tests results or anything else, that their products really are as described.
If am wrong, show me some links, or publications, but only what i found are "opinions" - mostly things like NOS lamination blah, blah (things which none user can check or prove)  but nothing which really can prove the whole glory of the products.
Only marketing talking.
Some time ago also was my beloved "german mylar"!!!

Noone here isn't to bash AMI, same as with many the products, whatever it is, some people like it, some not.

I think that colgate paste smells like sh*t!

Do you think that colgate tommorow, or even today will comment that?
Do they write, that am a fool and should give them test results, that their paste smells like ehm...?

This is public forum, not marketplace.

I'm going to regret this!!!!

No I think there now is a burden of proof required,  at least to the spectral analysis test results. The subjective how it "feels" or how it "sounds" are  merely that, subjective. I weighed in at the start of this post and I hold to my opinions. I said what I like! The fact of the matter is others who use the two mics I spoke of (IOaudio MK-U47 and Aputis with AMI) like the IO  a little better than the AMI (as a side note yes the IO mic uses the two tube concept and despite the impedance mismatch issues sounds great IM and others O). My feeling on this is it (IOaudio) has more of a HiFi modern sound as opposed to the "classic" actually rather distorted and yes a little muddy sound associated with the venerable U47, some coin the term warm! I am older then most of the younger engineers I work with, they have a different palate.

I will take a moment to state that how a mic or any recorded source material sounds soloed does not matter "IT IS HOW IT SITS IN THE MIX" that does! I will also add that there are at least five major Neumann variants of the U47 that they themselves made over the years each one has its own subtly unique "sound"! We have all read about the U47 that is "the one" in countless articles. Read sometime Allen Sides treatise on the headbasket variants and their sonic artifacts and subsequent contributions!

Despite the sniping AMI and all the other mentioned companies bring quality products to the world and more importantly allow us the little DIY end users to take advantage of there offerings in small amounts. I for one praise you all for your contributions

We use these tools for their associated inadequacies, their voicing if you will, not there pristine lab like ruler straight precision.  For example if I was doing spoken word work the last mic in the world I would put up is a tube mic let alone a U47! Just one recordists take on the issue!

Back on topic hopefully!

Avgatzeblouz:

Build your mic use whatever components you decide. Build another mic use different components. Heck build another mic with even other components and maybe even go down the road of the great 1GOHM resistor debate (lord knows I have). Listen to what they sound like on sources you record regularly as part of your world. Do not be bothered by what you or anybody else thinks they "should" sound like, listen. Then keep the one or ones that speak to you in ways that matter.

 

[Avgatzeblouz]

Avgatzeblouz:

Build your mic use whatever components you decide. Build another mic use different components. Heck build another mic with even other components and maybe even go down the road of the great 1GOHM resistor debate (lord knows I have). Listen to what they sound like on sources you record regularly as part of your world. Do not be bothered by what you or anybody else thinks they "should" sound like, listen. Then keep the one or ones that speak to you in ways that matter.

Thanks man, I was getting the same conclusions as you. I had no idea a storm would come out of that... Meanwhile I found a post where someone from this community was stating he tried both builds... and could not hear a difference !
Money being an issue, I think I'm gonna go for the IOAudio, even though I have to build the PSU. For the capsule, I really think I'm gonna try ADK GK49. Kind of a leap of faith, but I always can change it later. I emailed Thiersch and ADK, and got no answer from Thiersch, whereas Larry was very helpful. From my readings, the Z-mod line from ADK gets raving reviews and impressive testimonials. I'll keep you posted.

 

[micaddict]

Not to push you in a different direction, but there are at least three fellow members here who make a fine, hand made K47 or M7.

 

[ln76d]

Pip - why you would regret your post?

Old classic mikes and their components  50-60 years later is really hard debate.
Of course many will share their subjective feelings about it - and still these are only subjective feelings.
My few cents was about a little bit something different
If you someday by accident find some of my old posts here, you will find similar approach at some point
Most important here is not offend eachother, even if the point of view is completely different from both sides.

 

[Avgatzeblouz]

Not to push you in a different direction, but there are at least three fellow members here who make a fine, hand made K47 or M7.

I'm exactly here for advices and opinions. Please be my guest ! I am aware of Heiserman, Beesneez, Poctop, and Thiersch. I personnally am not fond of any Beesneez mic I heard. Just a personnal opinion, don't want to start another war. I would be curious to hear the K7, though. Heiserman, and Thiersch I never heard a capsule, except on Chunger shootout. Sounded very good, I had a slight pref for Thiersch. Poctop, I did a shootout between his capsule mounted in a Flea 47 and an F7, and it was good, but less magical, less happening. That's it for my experiences.

 

[Avgatzeblouz]

And I emailed Ivan, and the F7 is 350€+shipping.... Too expensive for me.

 

[ln76d]

How much is for ADK if i may ask?
I found some model online for 400$.

In my subjective, personal only opinion i would try Thiersh or Dan capsule for something related to U47.
Anyway if ADK costs less than 400$ i will think to try it in some of my mikes.

 

[Banzai]

Avgatzeblouz, send me a pm if you're looking for a Thiersch.  I always have a few extra

 

[Avgatzeblouz]

How much is for ADK if i may ask?
I found some model online for 400$.

In my subjective, personal only opinion i would try Thiersh or Dan capsule for something related to U47.
Anyway if ADK costs less than 400$ i will think to try it in some of my mikes.

300$. It is the same capsule as in the top of the line.

 

[GeorgeToledo]

Misha's original version of the transformer incomplete core story, where it was his friend who bought it:

http://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=56797.0

Original version of the AMI comparison story, where it is light and sterile/clean, as opposed to the muddy/heavy lows description now:

http://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=52099.msg694739#msg694739


And if Misha had already done the comparison and discounted the AMI, why would they buy the AMI that supposedly had the incomplete core, that he posted about right after Oliver's passing?

Or was it his friend? I don't know, the story changes.

Here you say Misha says the Haufe is 160 Henry, but in original thread about it they said 211 H. In an earlier post Misha said they *measured* 150 H on an AMI, but now say 111 H.

I could keep listing inconsistencies that are in plain print, but I have already drawn my conclusions. AMI/Tab-Funkenwerk's credibility is evident with all of the fantastic gear they have made. Though I'm not saying any company doesn't have an error now and again, who knows...But it is amazing how many of Misha's posts are peppered with jabs at AMI, Klaus, Bock, etc. Talk about a long standing beef, from way before when the transformer tests supposedly happened.

It's not my battle and will see my way out of the conversation, it's just sad to see how someone can attempt to tar the reputation of a great company with a load of B.S., and even gain some traction with those that don't know any better.

 

[Bonnie1]

Hello everyone,  I am officially apologizing to Avgatzeblouz for allowing my emotions to cause a distraction.  Years of quietly bitting my tongue while reading  questionable comments (providing no evidence) on various forums, nailed the BS meter today.  I am sorry, hopefully this thread can return to being productive so Avgatzeblouz and others can make well informed decisions.
-dmax

 

[Bonnie1]

Misha, It's nearly midnight and I'm still working. I will respond and post some measurements soon.  Until then there is a lot of useful information here,  http://www.tab-funkenwerk.com/id146.html

 

[o3misha]

Here the letter from Andreas Grosser. He measured new Haufe transformer and gave me again measured AMI bv08N info for comparission
Haufebv08:                                  AMI :
Z =456K.                                        Z=433K
R= Pr 650ohm/Sc 16ohm.  R= Pr.650ohm/Sc20ohm
L=213 H                                          L=111H
Ratio: 6.5:1                                    Ratio: 7.5:1

 

[o3misha]

Here is paper from Haufe for best , imho, modern transformer for the U47- GN107. This trasformer is close to Bv08, but has + 0.5 db more low end and softer - 0.5 db High end . It is vertically oriented x-former. My feelings are: fantastic transformer. It works with VF14 better then any other modern transformer which I tried.

 

[GeorgeToledo]

Where is the results for a measured original BV8, or some of the subtypes of BV8?

I feel like I'm missing something... what exactly is the point in the stats of a Haufe vs the AMI?

Misha, your current posts don't sync up with past posts even in this thread... but you have gone back and now edited through this thread so that your posts are "sort of" consistent. Now your originally opposing descriptions of the AMI sonic quality have been edited to match.

Truly ridiculous.

 

[ln76d]

Come on George...
Do not exacerbate the situation.
I agree with some points, but without epithets would be better
Maybe after all there will be something constructive from this topic, but please can we keep it in different atmosphere?
Or do we have to become another gearslutz?
Am really glad that Dennis calmed down a little, and i really hope that he stay with us for longer, same as i was happy when Oliver joined groupdiy!

Ah!!!

And i'm sorry also for some emotional, wacky,  reactions and really hope that we will go with that all in a better way

 

[Pip]

Sorry I for one don't care anymore! Please with all due respect and absolutely no mod privileges at all I ask that you move QC debate to another thread.

 

[Bonnie1]

Hi Misha,
It is not your point of view that is at issue.  It's how you present your argument that comes across offensive and not constructive.  (most likely, because English is not your native language)  I've recognized this, let's move on......
As I mentioned before, the 1st pic of the transformer you provided does not look to be a proper AMI BV8 of any flavor.
I have production deadlines to meet.... however in the next 2-3 weeks I will attempt to provide some answers to your specific questions.  I hope everyone can put a smile on their face and go do something kind hearted and positive....  I've got to get back to work!

I absolutely agree with PIP this needs a thread of its own.

btw In76d  "she" is a typo

 

[ln76d]

btw In76d  "she" is a typo

Not exactly know what you mean
Really
If this somehow offend you, i'm really sorry.
I never learned english, so sometimes i have problems - lost in translation.



I'm really sorry, but because your last name and nick on the forum i was totaly sure that you are a woman
Really sorry!
Already changed.

 

[Banzai]

Don't want to stir this up all over again, but what's with the constant references to people's English capabilities?

Not one person in this thread (except maybe ln76d!) could string together a sentence in Russian, never-mind write one down... But Misha, he's capable of writing perfectly coherent English. There's nothing he's said I haven't understood, and nothing I found offensive...

I'm sure we can all agree there's just no need to even go there...