kato

ever used muriatic acid for etching?
« on: June 19, 2006, 01:09:36 PM »
I read somewhere you can use a muriatic acid solution for etching (as a cheaper alternative.)

Any lab members tried this? If so, would you recommend it? Or should I stick with the tried-and-true ferric chloride or amonium persulfate?

Thanks for any insight,  Kato


alk509

ever used muriatic acid for etching?
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2006, 01:21:35 PM »
I know I've read about that here somewhere... Do a search for "HCl", or "hydrocloric acid" and you may find something.

Peace,
Al.

Lest laziness get the best of you!

ever used muriatic acid for etching?
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2006, 02:39:54 PM »
I have no experience with using it to etch, but used it to get the rust out of my tank, very corrosive stuff, fumes are nasty -this is why it may not be very good.  I used ferric chloride and it had very little fumes compared to that stuff.

Kato - check you pm's please

dissonantstring

ever used muriatic acid for etching?
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2006, 04:41:22 PM »
hi kato,
i haven't tried it, but this is something i found on the web a few months back:

Quote
I've found a new home-made etchant that I really, really like. And it's very cheap, and widely available. It's made by adding 1 part Muriatic Acid (the common kind that's sold in hardware stores, which is actually 28% Hydrochloric Acid) to 2 parts Hydrogen Peroxide (the common 3% kind that's sold in drugstores and pharmacies). This etchant can etch a 1-oz board in about five minutes, at room temperature, with gentle mechanical agitation. And it's almost transparent. I mix it in a plastic tub and wear rubber gloves so I can use a balled-up paper towel to gently wipe the surfaces of the board, as it etches, which seems to speed up the etching time, considerably. (Caution: The concentrated acid's fumes would be very bad to breathe, or to have around metallic items. And the acid would be very bad to get onto anything that's not plastic.)

i think guavatone is right about the fumes.  use outside!! :shock:
-grant

alk509

ever used muriatic acid for etching?
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2006, 04:59:46 PM »
Oh, yeah: needless to say, wear eye-protection and rubber gloves. There was an eye-patch-wearing newscaster when I was growing up who lost his eye in a muriatic acid accident. He was trying to unclog his toilet with HCl, some of it splashed back into his face, and bye-bye eye! :shock:



Peace,
Al.

Lest laziness get the best of you!

kato

ever used muriatic acid for etching?
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2006, 06:21:45 PM »
OK, well now I know why people don't use it!!

I'd rather not risk burning my eyes and lungs and getting corrosive pitting on all the metal in the house...

Thanks all.

ever used muriatic acid for etching?
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2006, 12:31:18 AM »
Yeah, very corrosive stuff.  It's main use is etching stones, which gives you an idea of how strang it is.  If you leave it near metal the fumes ( even with the top on) will cause metal to rust.

bcarso

ever used muriatic acid for etching?
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2006, 04:12:45 AM »
....although HCl is a walk in the park compared to fuming sulfuric and fuming nitric.

Ah takes me back to the days of my seemingly indestructible youth!

Svart

ever used muriatic acid for etching?
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2006, 07:58:07 AM »
nitric and sulfuric are like water to some of the nasty stuff like hydroflouric.  this stuff has to be kept in special plastic containers because it will eat right through glass.  It doesn't burn human skin but is readily absorbed through the skin.  this is bad news as it will soak right to the bone and dissolve it.  Imagine getting some of this on your hand and waking up to a limp mushy hand with no bones.. :shock:

ever wonder why toothpaste has a warning on the side of the package?  Flouride.  when it mixes with the hydrochloric acid of your stomach it changes into hydroflouric acid.  it can then do the same as above.  never swallow toothpaste!
Welcome to the GroupDIY leper colony! when something falls off, we just replace it with a tube!
occupation: General Electron Mayhem

Alesis X2 information repository:
http://www.theopiumdenproductions.

kato

ever used muriatic acid for etching?
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2006, 09:24:02 AM »
Hmmm, I think I just may return that bottle of muriatic acid I got at Menards.

If it's going to rust / corrode metal, even by evaporation with the cap on, then there's really no place I can safely store it. My garage is probably too hot. And my basement has too much cool stuff that I don't want affected. :) Not to mention that we have a baby on the way. Time to get the dangerous stuff out of the house. And add plastic safety plugs to all the electrical outlets...


chrissugar

ever used muriatic acid for etching?
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2006, 09:50:06 AM »
I can confirm that HCl is good for etching because when I was a kid (10 to 17 years old) I etched all my boards with it. Never had an accident, although sometimes inhaled some fumes.

chrissugar
Christian Mike Sugar
        CMS-LAB

evm1024

ever used muriatic acid for etching?
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2006, 01:17:29 PM »
Quote from: "Svart"
nitric and sulfuric are like water to some of the nasty stuff like hydroflouric.  this stuff has to be kept in special plastic containers because it will eat right through glass.  It doesn't burn human skin but is readily absorbed through the skin.  this is bad news as it will soak right to the bone and dissolve it.  Imagine getting some of this on your hand and waking up to a limp mushy hand with no bones.. :shock:

ever wonder why toothpaste has a warning on the side of the package?  Flouride.  when it mixes with the hydrochloric acid of your stomach it changes into hydroflouric acid.  it can then do the same as above.  never swallow toothpaste!


 Hydroflouric is mild that is true. But that mobil flourine is the killer. It does not go straight to the bone and form calcium floride. It does however spread out under the skin and deeper into the tissues and then burn you for hours to days after. Not much can be done to neutrilize this and you are in deep trouble with only a drop on you undetected.

 I've been burnt only twice by HF when I worked in a waferfab just out of high school. I used HF to clean diffusion furnace tubes made of quartz and other glassware. (You should see pyrex melt like butter in a 1000 C furnace).

 We used HCL and H2O2 (Hydrocloric acid and hydrogen peroxide) for cleaning too. This stuff will remove most all organics and metals form glass. In all cases rinse that board well.

 Ah, fuming sulferic and nitric.... Just add a little cotton or glycerine..... BTDT

bcarso

ever used muriatic acid for etching?
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2006, 01:30:00 PM »
Quote from: "Svart"
nitric and sulfuric are like water to some of the nasty stuff like hydroflouric.  this stuff has to be kept in special plastic containers because it will eat right through glass.  It doesn't burn human skin but is readily absorbed through the skin.  this is bad news as it will soak right to the bone and dissolve it.  Imagine getting some of this on your hand and waking up to a limp mushy hand with no bones.. :shock:

ever wonder why toothpaste has a warning on the side of the package?  Flouride.  when it mixes with the hydrochloric acid of your stomach it changes into hydroflouric acid.  it can then do the same as above.  never swallow toothpaste!


Yeah, HF is not as corrosive per se as "stronger" acids but does have that nasty glass-etch capability.  And the effects on tissue are terrible.

Another story:  At the San Juan Capistrano TRW laser facility a technician was involved in a fluorine containment breach (this was part of the big DF laser for shooting missiles out of the sky etc.).  Bad enough as it is (the lethal concentration of F2 is only 5 times higher than the just-detectable-by-smell), fluorine gas hitting moist air quickly produces hydrofluoric acid.  He knew enough not to breathe and rushed to a shower nearby, stripping off all of his clothing etc.

He survived.  He went back to find his stuff, including his glasses.  However, the lenses in them had dissolved.

Svart

ever used muriatic acid for etching?
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2006, 02:50:53 PM »
wow.

I read an incident report some time ago about a person who had accidentally gotten a hand in Hydroflouric acid and did not report it immediately.  it was a day or so later when arriving at the hospital with strange bone breakages in that hand that they realized what had happened.  it had made the bones brittle enough to break under light loads.

It's scary.
Welcome to the GroupDIY leper colony! when something falls off, we just replace it with a tube!
occupation: General Electron Mayhem

Alesis X2 information repository:
http://www.theopiumdenproductions.

AnalogPackrat

ever used muriatic acid for etching?
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2006, 02:58:46 PM »
I used to work in the semiconductor capital equipment industry.  The few times I had to visit a fab I had HF nightmares in the back of my mind.  Nasty stuff, indeed.

http://www.iowapoison.com/index.asp?pageID=151

http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/H3994.htm
If it is to be, it is up to me.


 

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