Lowfreq

Sonic Difference Between JLM 1290 And JLM 99v?
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2006, 06:17:19 PM »
Mmmm, I've been wondering about this too, as I've got a 31267 transformer heading my way soon, and after reading the transformer info on the jlm page(1st choice in reverse I think?) I'm really tempted to build a 1290 with a jlm tranno output and the 31267 input.

Trouble is............. :roll: I was already thinking of doing another baby A pre with the oep for some colour (one of matts suggestions for vocals)............. oh dear more choices..... ha ha

I'd go for both ideally, but I really should be putting my money into building my vocal/small gtr booth. :oops:
The plan is to be a small overdub studio. Mainly doing vox & some guitars(tracking drums and also mixing elsewhere for serious projects)

I've also got the dual 99v with 1538's & no output tranno, and yep it's pretty clean, and a couple of baby a's with cinmemags/2520 (quite agressive sounding i think).

I'm guessing it's gonna be a coloured sound compared to my dual 99v.
It would be nice to hear some of this Neve vibe that seems to get everyone in a tizz.

My 99v pre's are def phat enough, no prob there, especially with my G7.
And I'm aware that i should be looking at my selection of mics more too.

I wonder if i can use the 31267 in another project.... an input tranno on one of my G1176? I should really read the specs on this thing. :wink:

Anyway, I'm wondering if I'm trying to justify another project, where I might sit down at the end and think "gee, that's really only a tiny difference............", or if that may just have something that's a nice contrast to my cleaner pre's.........................

That's the trouble with too many exciting projects..... spoilt for choice. :green: but unforunatley I'm not spoilt for money. ha ha


gevermil

Sonic Difference Between JLM 1290 And JLM 99v?
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2006, 08:46:08 PM »
In anyones experience is the oep a little chunkier on vocals than the jlm 1:4 ? . Id like to build another BA just to hear the difference .

Lowfreq

Sonic Difference Between JLM 1290 And JLM 99v?
« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2006, 08:51:40 PM »
I've never heard the jlm input tranno, but there's a few opinions on the two in the Baby Animal thread.

The only thing I've noticed with the oep in some of the equipment I've used is I'm sure the low end seems to roll off earlier compared to other transformers.

I could be just imagining things tho, and i haven't used one in a preamp yet ,so............................. take with a grain of salt. :wink:

mattmoogus

Sonic Difference Between JLM 1290 And JLM 99v?
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2006, 12:20:46 AM »
Hey Lowfreq,

The obvious place for yr 31267 is of course in front of a 1290 or other Neve type circuit, but that doesnt mean its the only place you can use it.  Itll work in front of any of our pres and any other that requires a 1:2 stepup that loads the secondary with around 5k.  

When we first started building our 1290 and TG pres we supplied with with 31267s as we have a big box of them and that was the obvious choice for an 'authentic' input transformer for the Neve stuff anyway...

However, and you may not be surprised to hear this  :razz: , once we compared two of our 1:4s wired as 1:2 to the 31267 we both prefered the 1:4s, so thats now what we use.  I think the sound is probably a little less 'authentic' to the original Neve sound but the 2x 1:4s were smoother and had a more 'musical' low end, almost like a they were subtley making an octave below the low notes of drums and bass.
Yes of course were biased cause its our own transformer, but give me the choice in the studio and Id go for the 1:4s most times.

Ive said it before, I personally think the Neve sound is over rated - it isnt the be all and end all but just another useful flavour to have.  NOT my desert island choice.  Same as API...ok you can crucify me now.  :grin:

Your observation about the OEP is definitely correct, it does roll the low end off a little.  This is part of why I like it on vocals, also because it adds this mid range...intensity/grit/bite that helps vocals stay clear in a mix.  Its a great transformer but not the best choice on drums, and certainly not for any line level devices!  :shock:   :?

You know, lots of flavours of pres are very very useful but if you have a few that you like and arent going to be doing any drums you might consider buying a really good A-D-A convertor (cranesong/lavry etc) as they make a massive difference to the sound of the end result.


Gevermil, I wouldnt describe the OEP as chunky, its more mid rangey to my ears.  Definitely not 'fatter' than the 1:4.  Its certainly a very useful flavour though.  What are you missing on vocals with the 1:4?


[email protected]
...btw I work for Joe :-)

gevermil

Sonic Difference Between JLM 1290 And JLM 99v?
« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2006, 12:40:58 AM »
Im not missing anything from the 1:4 , I like it alot . I just hear all this fat talk about the oep stuff and get curious . You say the oep is not the best for line level duty , so why is it suggested for the g1176 ?
What dose the BA present as a load ?

Lowfreq

Sonic Difference Between JLM 1290 And JLM 99v?
« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2006, 01:26:08 AM »
mmmm, maybe I'll wait for a bit to do the 1290 thing.

Prob just get another Baby A or two to finish that rack. First things first. :wink:

I've got my Mytek converter which absolutley kicks ass!!!, but it's only two channels, so most of the others' end up going through my............................. dear I say it.............................. maudio convertors. :shock:  ha ha

I think I have too many pre's anyway, in comparsion to my good convertors. sh*t, most of my drum stuff is done with drumagog using samples of the kit recorded through the mytek. :roll:
I just need to stop lusting after gear............ :wink:

Yes, I think the Neve can wait.....................for now

thanks matt

mattmoogus

Sonic Difference Between JLM 1290 And JLM 99v?
« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2006, 02:08:21 AM »
Quote from: "gevermil"
Im not missing anything from the 1:4 , I like it alot . I just hear all this fat talk about the oep stuff and get curious . You say the oep is not the best for line level duty , so why is it suggested for the g1176 ?
What dose the BA present as a load ?



Hmmm I wouldnt describe the OEP that way but I guess its fat compared to a non transformer input pre...
The original 1176 had a tiny mic input transformer on its input so an OEP is ok there, though of course it wont sound like the original.  A big part of its sound is the too small input transformer that gets over driven as you turn up the input level control.  But for line input/output situations like the SSL comp, you can really hear the lack of low end and the extra mid range grunge that comes from over driving the transformer.  Same as the G9 output, which I think its much improved when you use a transformer that can handle decent level.

YMMV.


Lowfreq, cool so youre all convertered up then  :cool:
Neve, IMO definitely wont make or break your setup.  


[email protected]
...btw I work for Joe :-)

Clevelandaudio

Sonic Difference Between JLM 1290 And JLM 99v?
« Reply #27 on: November 10, 2006, 12:55:04 PM »
totally agree with matt, I built BA's with both oeps and with JLMs. The JLMs have much more in the bottom couple of octaves, but the oeps have a really useful midrange growl... depending on what you're using them on the OEPs can sound very natural, but compared to a "flat" transformerless pre they get more growl as you throw more level at them. Awesome on most guitar tones, great on certain voices.

the jlms seem flatter unless you huck low end at them then they get all oozey. A stingray into a countryman into one of these will really throw your LF cones around in a good way.

If you really want color loop one OEP BA into another, flip the pad on the second and dial the first to drive the second input trans. awesome. Try it on a lead with an ac-30 micd with a 57 or 81, then squash to taste.

dig it.

mattmoogus

Sonic Difference Between JLM 1290 And JLM 99v?
« Reply #28 on: November 10, 2006, 09:36:49 PM »
:cool:  :cool:  :cool:

 :thumb:


[email protected]
...btw I work for Joe :-)

Lowfreq

Sonic Difference Between JLM 1290 And JLM 99v?
« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2006, 12:59:52 AM »
Well, I'm glad i can hear the differences between my transformers. Sometimes it really subtle, and i wonder if I'm convincing myself of this just coz I think i should. :roll:
Thats why I was wondering if I'd actually be able to tell any difference with the Neve or whether I'd believe i could.

I'm glad the low end roll off in the oep is something others had noticed. :thumb:

I think my DA out of my soundcard is part of the prob. (got great AD with the Mytek, but still pretty poo DA with the maudio). I remember soundguy saying something about how he really got to hear the differences in pre amps once he got his nice console up and running and had a good monitoring path.

The difference in op-amps is something I need to explore too. I'll soon have two baby A's with cinemags & 99v's to compare with my one baby A with cinemags and a 2520.(I don't know why i got three cinemags. 2 or 4 really. oh well. room for 1 oep)
So that'll be nice to play with.

Quote
If you really want color loop one OEP BA into another, flip the pad on the second and dial the first to drive the second input trans. awesome. Try it on a lead with an ac-30 micd with a 57 or 81, then squash to taste
That's def something I'll give a go :thumb:


mattmoogus

Sonic Difference Between JLM 1290 And JLM 99v?
« Reply #30 on: November 11, 2006, 02:18:33 AM »
Good point about the A-D-A, Im using a HEDD for my A-D and Benchmark DAC1 for D-A.  They make a big difference to what you can hear, especially having a good D-A.  I guess I assume everyone can hear what Im hearing with these convertors but its not always the case is it!

I agree that there seems to be a bigger difference between average and high quality D-As than A-Ds, but having both is certainly important.

To me most of these differences, on most sources are night and day.  Im recording as I write this and the artist can spot different pres a mile away, or at least from the other side of the room.


[email protected]
...btw I work for Joe :-)


 

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