[DESIGN] A little monitor controller for you

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NewYorkDave

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Jun 4, 2004
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Does that connect right across your program buss without buffering?

If so, when you switch to mono mode for monitoring, with the level controls turned up, you'd also be shorting your stereo program channels together... not good.

Looks nice otherwise.
 
It's still going to compromise your stereo separation to some degree, though, even when the level control isn't up all the way.

Add some buffering before the level controls and you've got a winner. A single 5532 configured as two noninverting unity-gain stages will do the trick.
 
[quote author="NewYorkDave"]It's still going to compromise your stereo separation to some degree, though, even when the level control isn't up all the way.
[/quote]
You think? It's similar to my passive mastering console (which was built to mimic the consoles at A&M mastering) on which crosstalk was measured at -90dB @10kHz...
 
-90dB at 10kHz.... under what conditions?

The crosstalk will get worse as the level control is turned up.

This isn't a matter of opinion or conjecture; it's easy to figure it out from the circuit diagram.

A&M's console used an arrangement just like this, hanging right off the program buss, with no buffering?
 
[quote author="NewYorkDave"]A&M's console used an arrangement just like this, hanging right off the program buss, with no buffering?[/quote]
Yessir. The designer was the one who designed mine...
 
Jakob,

Yes, that was my point, the crosstalk would occur when switched to mono.

This is a problem IF you check mono while you're "on the air", so to speak. If you only check it when you're offline, then it's not an issue.

My own philosophy of monitoring sections is that you should be able to switch them any which way while you're online without disturbing your program signal. But I guess not all designers consider this necessary.
 
[quote author="gyraf"]Sorry - I can't see how there has to be any crosstalk in that circuit (unless it's mono'ed)?

Could you explain?[/quote]
My understanding is that it happens at the mono switch, which is always in the circuit whether mono'd or not...
 
Easy mod:

Change the stepped attenuator to 1K and insert 10K resistors in series between each input source and the input selector switches.

You'll have a nice low impedance output (about 900 ohms) and disturbance of your program line as you change selector positions will be minimized. Plus, the series resistors will isolate your program line from additional capacitance from your monitor amp hookup cables, the amp's input stage, or any other unexpected nastiness in the monitor chain.

Assuming your source equipment has a fairly typical "pro audio" output impedance of about 100 ohms, this simple mod will improve isolation by 40dB!

You'll need an additional 20dB of gain from your monitor amp, which is usually not going to be a problem.
 
viit.gif
 
> I can't see how there has to be any crosstalk in that circuit (unless it's mono'ed)?

Right. In the most common mode, plain stereo, there is no issue.

> my console requires to be in normal stereo mode... I see no reason to go mono or monitor incoming signal while "at the air".

OK, then it is OK, and its simplicity is very good.

But some of us must check "on air". As Dave says: you should be able to switch them any which way while you're online without disturbing your program signal. Depends on what you do, of course.

Look what happens in the worst case: mono and both faders full-up:
mon-con.gif


Ignore the "500ohms" for now. Note that ALL sources have some output impedance inside the box, so I've shown 50 ohms for each source. Note that your recorder is also on these points, sharing the 50 ohm resistor with the monitor control.

In plain stereo, the 50 ohm source and the 5K fader causes a 1% signal drop to the recorder, 0.09dB, both channels, negligible even if you switch it in and out. (Actually the loss will be higher due to other loads, but still negligible.)

In "L to L+R" or "R to L+R", the loss rises to 0.17dB on one channel. Probably negligible.

In the "L+R to L+R" full-mono position, IF the faders are ever all the way up (red line around switches and faders), the two sides of the source are shorted together (blue dotted line). The signal to the recorder becomes full-mono. It is mixed in the two 50Ω resistors. And if it was stereo at all, the two source outputs with slightly different signals will "fight" through their 50 ohm output impedances. Since they are typically only rated to drive 600Ω loads, any large stereo difference will distort badly.

Now consider the 500 ohm resistors. In full-mono, each recorder sees a mix of 50Ω and 1050Ω. The two source outputs see each other through 1100 ohms, so any "fight" is not going to distort. Separation is about 26dB. (Actually about a dB better due to fader loading.) Most clients would hardly notice if separation fell to 26dB. The downside is about 1dB loss of maximum level to the monitors.

> I never use level control all the way up. It's more like at 45% of its travel.

Then assuming a audio-taper pot (or attenuator), what you have is like my drawing, except the "500Ω" is more like 9KΩ. In that case separation is better than 45dB (excellent for proper stereo), but loss of maximum monitor level is 20dB. Gain is now fairly cheap and we often have 20dB to throw away. So your system works fine as long as you never use the top half of the pot range while "on the air".

But why use just half the pot? Spread out. Put about 30KΩ where I show "500ohms". Now "all the way up" gives about the same monitor level as you had at "half up". The bottom half of the pot becomes useful for soft listening. Separation with on-air mono-check is now 67dB.

And you can put in a switch:

500Ω = high gain, noise-check, but degrades stereo
33KΩ = normal
100KΩ = dim, for using the phone while keeping an ear on the program
open = Mute
 
Heres a couple of pics of mine. I started building it while Brad was making his. Mine has a Shallco bridged h with holco resistors, and all Shallco switches. Transformer buffered meter amps. Overkill!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/peterreardon/DSCF0145.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/peterreardon/DSCF0144.jpg

Peter
 
Hey Chrissugar,
I bought the amplifier design from a famous boutique pro audio guy, under the condition that I not talk about it. The meter is a 100-0-100 ua meter that I had made by instrument meter specilists, in burbank.
Peter
 
Proly' left and right....like my wave lab program has a little phase window with pretty graphics dancing around for the left and right channel.
 
the meter measures stereo phase. The left right switch cuts the right or left speaker, then goes to the mono switch. So you can hear mono, left channel both speakers, right channel both speakers, depending on the position of the previous switch. I' going to make a surround version of this box next.
Peter
 

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