car audio recomendations?

I need a new stereo for my car. a single height, in-dash receiver. its been many years since ive even checked out what is on the market. for one, im having a hard time finding something that doesnt look like a chromed out, blinking neon robot circus. something that won't stick out like a sore thumb on my not-very-modern, woodgrain '84 mercedes dash. any suggestions?

I like the idea of hooking up a hard drive by usb, by why not just have that HD inside? the only ones ive seen with that are $$$$$$$$$$$ and DVD, etc features I dont want. but I really like the idea of whatever CD I put it getting copied to disk as I listen to it. I dont want a stereo that is an extension of an ipod. my Ipod is broken and I dont want to give apple any more money.

but seriously, why doesnt apple make a car audio product? thats the one thing Id buy from them. the whole front could be a touch screen, like the phone. but the real estate afforded by the car-audio form factor would allow a full sized hard drive for massive storage. they could do 300Gigs and make it affordable. add wimax and gps and Ill take one right now.


mike p

Sll Keef is Auto Stereo King.
Period.
Ask Him.
Imediately.\Time iws too short not to have cool chick pleaser stereo.

Do you know the words toGuatta mara?

Whats wrong with Apple? Are they your personal Microsoft? Apple has been ahead of the curve since 1985. Yeah, I hated them too when they bagged serial, SCSI, and 6 PCI slots, but I have since recovered.
I am the anti-gadget person, but I am saving for an iPhone. When I finally get one, I will hardly consider it "giving Apple money".
Mike
PS: But is the whole "genius bar" thing in the stores lame? Yupper!

I like Blaupunkt, but that's partly because I like Vws and I've had a few of them. They tend to be simple, and don't look like a neon circus like you described.

I think these days a jack input for Ipod, etc. would be nice.

every Ipod dies. they are not built to last. pretty much everyone who buys one Ipod buys another one. and another one. not me, I am breaking the cycle. my day job involves designing and manufacturing very high reliability equipment, so I guess my point of view is skewed, but really, they are built like cheesy toys. they fail like clockwork. I see it as *good* engineering, they are designed to have a very specific lifetime.

Im not an apple hater. I am very impressed by how they have taken the focus off performance and specs and placed it on style and outward design and they calibrate the reliability to agree with the new product introduction cycle. (old hardware dies right when the new ones come out). THAT is their innovation, IMO. im not buying new apple hardware every year but alot of people do, it is clearly working for them. also its amazing how they can come out with new models that have LESS features than the last model, smaller ipod storage, macbooks with no connectivity... and people snap them up.

Im tempted to rig up a DIY in-dash PC. I could fit a 7" touchscreen if I remove the ashtray. I like the adaptability/expandability of such a solution. when WiMax becomes available it is just an add-on. I could do a DIY sensor interface board to add digital gauges. and keep tabs on all sorts of engine performance parameters. boost pressure, adenoid compensator operation, vacuum, etc. I dont have time for that.

mike

[quote author="rodabod"]I like Blaupunkt, but that's partly because I like Vws and I've had a few of them. They tend to be simple, and don't look like a neon circus like you described.[/quote]
Here in the US the VW stereo options are different from the UK...

Radio station spacing is different of course (analogue-broadcast FM stations are ONLY on the 'odd decimals'... 96.7, 101.5 etc. and AM spacing is every 10kHz I think ...- isn't it every 9kHz in Europe?) but the big difference is the manufacturer.

Blaupunkt doesn't sell a SINGLE radio in or styled for VWs in the USA, or I believe in North or South America. -Neither does Sony, whereas UK VW dealerships sell Sony as authorised upgrades, I recall, from a visit to a UK VW dealership couple of years ago.

In the US the stuff is made by Clarion or Panasonic. -It still conforms to the same visual criteria, and essentially appears to be as original VW as the UK Blaupunkt and Sony options do- but it operates a little differently.

No matter WHAT the vehicle, I try and get into the stock system... there's so little point in investing heavily for such a high-noise-level/poor-acoustic-performance environment... VW however does an EXCELLENT job, with inbuilt model-specific individual channel delays, channel-by-channel EQ and a few other DSP tricks, All tailored to not just the model of the car, but also which side of the vehicle the steering wheel is on! (well, it's so easy in DSP-land, why wouldn't they do it?) and aftermarket radios obviously don't have this automatically built-in, which explains why the VW stock stuff is SO darned good to begin with.

..Of course, there's no explaining this to people who want "fifty thousand watts" (yeah.... that's right!) of amplification, and who usually take the irrefutable viewpoint that "stock is ALWAYS garbage", but I'm not complaining, since it means I can always get a replacement easily enough on eBay for almost no money, should mine ever fail! (and yes, I have a VAG-COM interface, so I can reprogram the DSP for a Passat radio to call up the Golf settings etc.)

Keith

My $0.02 on car stereo, is that despite the weird acoustics and horrible noise floor, upgraded equipment can sometimes make a much bigger difference than it does with a home stereo.

When I replaced my 1988 Techniques CD player with a new Marantz, I was shocked over how little difference there was. What difference there was would not be heard in a car. Last week I did some DA converter shootouts, with EMU, Presonus, RME, and Apogee. Again, shocked at the small magnitude of difference (which also wouldn't be heard in a car). However, when my wife took over my Civic hatchback from me, we replaced the $400 Kenwood Excellon with the 10 disk in the trunk changer with a $100 JVC in dash CD. There was a HUGE change in sound quality (to the negative). The JVC is small, flat sounding, murky, and lifeless. The stereo lost all it's punch and clarity. From what I've experienced, there seems to be some really bad car stereo gear out there, more so than home stereo gear. I'm not advocating 6" diameter bass capacitors and 1500W poweramps. It just seems to take a little more planning to get to an acceptable performance level.

In my current car (Honda Element) I got a pretty good sounding rig by leaving the stock tuner and stock power amp. I installed a Kenwood graphic equalizer (mostly to add midrange) and replaced all the stock speakers except the subwoofer (the stock speakers were single paper cones with "whizzers"). The end result is that music in my car is more enjoyable than music in my untreated living room. I wouldn't mix an album in my car, or even judge a mix there (like many of my friends do), but I don't subscribe to the notion that music can't sound good in a car. The three hours a day I commute would really suck if I didn't do the upgrades I did.

As far a specific recommendations for brands, I too am at a loss. I still might replace my tuner, just so I can get iPod controls. I agree that everything looks like an explosion (or should I say X-pLoShun) at the bling factory. I can say that my old Kenwood Excellon sounded really good though. Have you looked at Crutchfield? They seem to carry almost everything (good place to shop, expensive place to buy).

-Chris

where Im coming from... I have very modest gaols here. the stock tape deck is shot and the radio barely works at this point. the thing can only lock on to stations when it is cold. after being on for 5 minutes or more you can't change the station it will just seek and seek and seek. so it stays on NPR 100% of the time and I turn it on or off. Ive got some real hi-fi gear, but I dont need it in the car. Id like some speakers that still have surrounds. though it would be cool to find a stereo that LOOKS like it was made by a classy audiophile company.

keith, do you have a suggestion?

mike p

If I recall, most Blaupunkts I worked on had the option of switching the frequency between the European and N.A. standard, ths way they could be used anywhere in the world. Most if not all are manufactured in Japan for years now.

I used to have a Blaupunkt driving a stereo ultralinear amp with 6L6 AB powered by a dynamotor in the trunk. I was the only kid on the block with one of these.

Regarding the newer circus sideshow stereos, they are downright dangerous. It's much safer to have a large volume knob for adjusting while driving than having to find some dinky pushbutton after scrolling through multiple menus. Whoever thought that one up for car stereos should be taken out back for some gene pool re-adjusting.

When will auto manufacturers wake up and provide a 19" rackmount space in the dashboard for real audio gear??

I like the Knob for volume. It seems this is the bottom of the line model you can get at walmart or a truckstop, often come with two 6x9's. I don't want to scroll through a menu to tweak the mix when I drive. When I had an EQ, I would readjust it for each tape-too much fiddling. I don't have good bass in my truck with the stock speakers. I can add more speakers, or i can replace the stock with full range. As for options, I like the multi C.D. player, mounted anywhere, with the signal connected inline to the antenna jack. You could modify one of those, add a harddrive. It's been a few years since I worked on car audio, so I don't remember, but there must have been some controller for the remote C.D. player.

I had a Pioneer Premier deck installed into my SL about 5 years ago, and had somebody fabricate a faceplate that looks like the stock stereo when I'm out of the car. They also removed the produce shelf and custom built a new one (that looks stock) to mount the sub, enclosure and amps to. I found some speakers that I like, that are the same size as the dash speakers, and had those installed in the original spots.

It's a completely stealth design, and nobody would ever know any different while the car is off. The new system has delay compensation (in inches AND ms), automatic eq calibration with a included remote mic and pink noise, sub polarity switching, among many other features. It sounds about ten times better than the stock system did, and still looks original.




[quote author="mikep"]where Im coming from... I have very modest gaols here.

Ive got some real hi-fi gear, but I dont need it in the car.

[/quote]

Oops! just read your second post...

Timely, because I need to at least upgrade the speakers in a 1995 E150 van I got from my wife's uncle to haul the band. Obviously I don't want to sink a ton of money into it, but the stock speakers are totally shot.

I decided to try a pair of Pioneer TS-G6842R 6x8 speakers because they were cheap ($40 a pair at Newegg), had good freq range (30Hz to 25kHz), and they'll fit perfectly in the stock speaker space.

I thought about upgrading the radio (standard AM/FM cassette deck) but this particular van has the "upgraded" stereo, which means it actually has a separate amp somewhere driving the speakers and I would have to bypass that somehow.

Plus, its not worth spending a bunch of dough.

8 track anyone?

[quote author="mikep"]every Ipod dies. they are not built to last.
mike[/quote]

I've had an original 10 gig Ipod for 5 years ( when no one had even heard of them ) and it STILL works !!
OK, the battery only lasts an hour but that was GREAT value for money.
I have a 30 gig photo Ipod too, but "the missus" still uses the 10 gig.
Perhaps they were better made in 2003 ?

MM.

I saw a picture of a touch screen in the paper today, I wasn't aware of them. It has the volume knob as well. Here's a bad video I found.

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/dvd-ford-focus-touchscreen/1584929854

[quote author="MartyMart"][quote author="mikep"]every Ipod dies. they are not built to last.
mike[/quote]

I've had an original 10 gig Ipod for 5 years ( when no one had even heard of them ) and it STILL works !!
OK, the battery only lasts an hour but that was GREAT value for money.
I have a 30 gig photo Ipod too, but "the missus" still uses the 10 gig.
Perhaps they were better made in 2003 ?

MM.[/quote]

I have to second that. I have a 20GB from when they first introduced it as the new largest-storage model and the controls consolidated to the touch-wheel. It has been dropped on its head several times and has deep dents, and still runs like a champ.

The same regarding Macs in general. My little G4 powerbook is still going strong, and was bought secondhand via ebay years back. I'll concede there were a few models that sucked hard and were prone to failure, but that isn't sufficient to declare them swindlers and snake oil peddlers. Of course the industrial design is the appeal, and they are parting a good many well-to-do people from a chunk of their expendable income. Attending an art school has shown me just how disgusting are the trappings of the privileged youth.

[quote author="Emperor-TK"] I wouldn't mix an album in my car, or even judge a mix there (like many of my friends do) [/quote]

I have always treated the "car test" as a worst case scenario, just to see if a mix will hold up in a hostile acoustical environment. Better yet, try several cars and see if it survives that wide variation you alluded to.

I wholly agree that decent audio saves long tedious commutes. Even NPR is more enjoyable when you hear nuances in the narrator's voice.

Your average crappy car stereo is quite a valid playback device, after all
that's what thousands of people listen to the radio & therefore songs on !!
Only problem is that the amount of limiting/comp used on some stations, such
as Capitol FM in London, is just rediculous and bares NO relation to the mix
at all !!
I use studio monitors, headphones ( Sony DJ750's ) a Bose soundwave system
and an old Aiwa "Boom box" for listening, works for me.


MM.

Got my Pioneer speakers today and installed them. They are quite an upgrade from the factory speakers. Better high's, more solid lows, and no rattling. They sound great, especially for $40.

I just noticed that the stereo actually drives six speakers. Two in the front doors, two in the side doors / side panel, and two in the back doors.

I don't think I'll replace the back speakers, since the back is filled with my gear (I bought this van to haul my Hammond and Leslie), but I may replace the side ones, since bandmates do ride there.

who mentiond 8 trasck?