deleted threads and posts

wow, it was getting really exciting around here before those posts were deleted!

i think we may have even witnessed a felony.

thank you moderators.
there´s one at the black market left.

edit p.s. i don´t like censorship either

I'm not a fan of censorship, but in this case I think a surgical police action was probably the best solution for all.

What did I miss??

:thumb:
let's keep it nice 'n tidy :green:

what did you miss?

well, if we get in to it here, this thread will prob. be deleted as well.

lets just say that somebody has totally lost his marbles and has moved from amusing rants to outright threats. and thats probably as specific as i can be without getting this deleted.

Dang-go and play a gig and come back and now I have no idea what I missed!

Surely you can guess without anyone saying so.

Ahh. Yes, I guess I didn't miss much of it after all.

Nothing has really been deleted, just moved to a safe area for now. And I really do not like censorship under any form either - but when it comes to direct attacks and threats the moderators has to step in, may they like it or not...

If you feel that a thread containing worth-saving information has disappeared, please contact a moderator to possibly have it back..

:?

Jakob E.

One of the other forums i go on has an unacceptable area, all deleted posts and threads get moved there for a month, but locked. all can see them, but nobody can post. no accusations of personal censorship.

i cant ask you to re-show the thread as i never saw it, dont know if i missed any info, but like as not i didn't.

sometimes censorship is a necessary evil :sad:

Iain

that would defeat the censorship idea. Moderators are there to ensure that these things dont happen, in your thread it did get out of hand, but you never asked to have it locked or deleted, so it carried on.

what if in the thread somebody make a perfectly valid point, but the original poster doesnt like it, he would have the option to delete it, and i would not know of its existence, selective censorship.

this must remain in the domain of the moderators, but i am disappointed that they didn't step in to your thread and lock it at about page 3, it got well out of hand :?

Iain

because you would be censoring your own thread, deciding what is best for it. who's to say your point is more valid than anybody else's?

in your thread there was lots of inflammatory comments, but also some fair exchange of what does and doesn't constitute 'Neve', some of that would not have been beneficial to your sale. Allowing YOU the opportunity to delete posts would leave YOU open to all sorts of accusations of selective censorship.

This position has to remain with the moderators IMHO.

Iain

Please dont read this from a personal point of view, i am writing hypothetically ...

[quote author="lofi"]
Please dont read this from a personal point of view, i am writing hypothetically ...
[/quote]

I'm staying here, and its the guiste of my post, sorry

[quote author="buttachunk"]facing post deletion would give people an incentive to ADD to the subject/topic of a thread.[/quote]

or lead to accusations of censorship with ulterior motive..

[quote author="buttachunk"]
censoring an entire thread due to blatant thread sabotage (beyond what was mentioned above...) is like removing an eyelash with a cannon[/quote]

was just about to comment about the first version of this but you edited .. it would be better to have a moderator perform this task, if only for YOUR protection from accusations

didn't want to say anythng, but please:
this is not the topic of this thread

[quote author="buttachunk"]

Tweezers are more appropriate than a cannon here. I would've had to ask the mods to remove well over 30 posts in that thread....

[/quote]

nope, the moderator should asses each post in a thread and decided its validity, edit from there.

this would require a general 'call for help' to be sent from one of the participants in the thread to all the Mods, we cant expect them to read every post in every thread.

I really dont like the personal ability to censor a public thread

Butta and lofi;

Here's the deal from MY viewpoint.

I have no problem with ANY lab members discussing, or debating or arguing with each other. It's healthy discussion.

However, there has to be a line, and for me it's when one member physically threatens another person.

If I threatened to shoot, batter, stab or bomb another person, whether they're a lab member, a friend, family member or colleague, -even a threat against their vehicle or other property- then that's not acceptable.

Ignoring all censorship issues for now, things get heated to a certain point, and there have been reported cases of internet arguments turning into homicides, or wheelchair-for-a-lifetime cases.

For that reason, I fully and absolutely believe that the line lies at physical action, or the threat of physical action.

I have a documented history of keeping an amiable regard for the person at the root of these discussions, and it does no good to speculate or discuss this too openly.

Butta, fair play. Your thread did get bombed and piled-on a bit. If I wasn't saving for a car right now, selling a house, working a day job AND producing two chamber music CDs at the moment along with trying to maintain a family life and raise a son, I'd buy the stuff myself, turn it into a couple of 1272s, write some dazzling eBay schpiel and prove you right. -If that stuff hasn't shifted in a couple of months, maybe I'll buy it then.

Lofi, fair play. You've made your disagreements well enough. It's ben irritating Butta, but you probably know that. -All the same there have been a couple of people who have agreed with your points, however I don't think that you'll change Butta's mind, and I don't think that he'll ever change yours.

Now I say "fair play" to BOTH of you because your discussion has reached a simmering, continuous, critical-mass. It doesn't actually explode, but it's not dying out either.

Of course the boiling and spilling over into this thread isn't really helping anything, but you both probably feel that you have a valid point and dont want the other to assert their viewpoint unchallenged.

Again, it's all good free speech and fair play.. if a little tedious for the onlookers. I'm not judging.

But Butta, if you said you were going to take a flight to lofi's city, and 'teach him a lesson', that's not fair play any more. That's the sort fo threat which you end up reading about in the papers. Likewise, if lofi threatens to damage Butta's car or whatever... THAT is the point at which it's no longer fair play. That's the point at which law enforcement considers things to have gone too far, and thus I think that it's not only fair but ESSENTIAL that the threats are diffused.

I know I've 'brokered' a couple of 'peace-deals' in these forums previously, and at the risk of catching flak myself I'm willing to see if I can help again, but I'm NOT involved with this so far.

I do however believe that overly-discussing the nature of the problem will very possibly not help matters. At least one person here may be very touchy about things, and discussing specifics or judging things publicly WILL be counter-productive.

If we step back and reconsider the fantastic resource which we have here, and how much better than Gearslutz it is, that might cause us to put things back into perspective.

I've corresponded with ONE of the people involved thus far, and I'm going to try and contact ALL the people involved. -In the meantime, I would repectfully ask that public speculation be halted, since it serves no long-term benefit, yet might potentially be VERY damaging.

-And PLEASE bear in mind that all four people involved are EXTEREMELY contibutive members. -Every single one of them has invoked the admiration of LOTS of lab members.

Judge only as you might WISH to be judged: By that I mean that if you'd wish for anyone judging you to have ALL the facts, and not just 'the other person's story', then please don't judge anyone until you are CERTAIN that you yourself are clear regarding all the facts... and even then, spare a thought for the parties involved, and please be mindful of privacy.

Respectfully to ALL concerned,

Keith Andrews

agreed.

Excellent.

Thanks guys. -Hopefully you both understand that I for one value both of your input a great deal.

Keef