Brexit

I suspect the lack of housing in the UK is due to government intransigence, cheeseparing and lack of investment as well as a political system manipulated by those with vested interests

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OR, it could be that the British don't want to concrete over what green belt is still left.  The country is now overpopulated  and uncontrolled immigration from everywhere is partly to blame.  We had 47 million in 1939  and we plateaued out at 56 million in the years between 1971 to 1991,  now we have 65 million with no room to build homes for that 9 million extra people.



I am part of the green line at the bottom who got out carrying only the memories of what my country used to be like.

DaveP

Hi all

I'm surprised nobody talk about the car exploding past night in North Ireland...
If there is a link with Independentisme, that's frightening...
Things always get faster than expected.

We'll see tomorrow for the plan B  :-X

Best
Zam

Thanks!

Nothing about exploding cars in google news.  Despite the fact that at least five local newspapers report it.

Yeah car bomb in Derry last night , luckily no one hurt ,the usual warning was issued before hand . looks to be the work of a splinter group or faction related to republicanism . not much info on who maybe have been the intended targets ,Hopefully not a sign of a return violence on a wider scale ,although inevitably theres powers on both sides of the equation  who war suits .

Liam Fox has accused pro-Remain MPs of trying to "steal Brexit", amid backbench moves to take control of the process.
He told the BBC: "You've got a Leave population and a Remain Parliament. Parliament has not got the right to hijack the Brexit process."

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Laughable whining.  A 51.9% 'leave' vote out of a voting age population turnout of 65.4%.  It would seem exactly Parliament's job to take whatever action their oversight deems correct, especially with 2 years of additional investigation and debate. 

Just as a relative measure of importance , every major paper in Ireland is leading with the Derry bomb story ,most of the English  papers have a small column on page ten or something.
Now Plan B has been unveiled too ,a renegotiation of the good Friday agreement  which has stood solid for close on 30 years . A paddle isnt much use if your up sh!t creek and thats certainly seems to be where Mrs May has backed herself into .

Laughable whining.  A 51.9% 'leave' vote out of a voting age population turnout of 65.4%.  It would seem exactly Parliament's job to take whatever action their oversight deems correct, especially with 2 years of additional investigation and debate.

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The original Brexit vote was a "snapshot" of how the country felt in 2016,  This was before all the real facts and analysis came out.  A "snapshot" vote in 2019 would almost certainly be more like 51.9% to remain in the EU.  Parliament and almost everyone else knows this, but it is "the truth which dare not speak its name".

After May's deal was voted down, Parliament is now voting on least worst options to try to clear the muddy waters, we will know more after today.

DaveP

Trevor Noah brilliantly exposes the irony WRT the British complaining about immigrants, after colonizing half the world for centuries themselves:

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2tsu0h

DaveP said:

The original Brexit vote was a "snapshot" of how the country felt in 2016,  This was before all the real facts and analysis came out.  A "snapshot" vote in 2019 would almost certainly be more like 51.9% to remain in the EU.  Parliament and almost everyone else knows this, but it is "the truth which dare not speak its name".

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I am not convinced the facts and analysis we have now are any freer of FUD than they were at the time of the referendum

The result of the referendum was a shock to the government and reflects just far out of touch they are with the general populace. There was and is a vast silent majority that is thoroughly pissed off with the government, politicians in general and the EU. I strongly suspect if the referendum were to be repeated you would be shocked at the result.

After May's deal was voted down, Parliament is now voting on least worst options to try to clear the muddy waters, we will know more after today.

DaveP
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May's biggest mistake was not to involve all parties from the very start. After all, the referendum was party agnostic and so should have been the subsequent negotiations.

Cheers

Ian

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Parliament against ' no deal'.  Consequences must be dawning on some... ...

May to renegotiate? Sounds like the pipe dream is still alive.

Politicians show their true colours again by refusing to give up their half term skiing break to sort out Brexit.

Cheers

Ian

Read the other day that there might be MPs who are active/passively not interested in any kind of deal.

Speaking of consequences:
Japanese car maker Nissan decided to not build the next model of one of their series in Sunderland but at home due to ongoing uncertainty concerning Brexit, affecting some 7.000 workers in Britain  Though no firing of staff intended so far... ...

Script said:

Read the other day that there might be MPs who are active/passively not interested in any kind of deal.

Speaking of consequences:
Japanese car maker Nissan decided to not build the next model of one of their series in Sunderland but at home due to ongoing uncertainty concerning Brexit, affecting some 7.000 workers in Britain  Though no firing of staff intended so far... ...

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Not quite the whole story but of course any mention of Brexit makes it newsworthy. What Nissan said was that falling European sales of their 4x4 due to competition from hybrids and electric cars meant they have abandoned plans to make their next generation 4x4 in Europe. The fact it is currently made in the UK is incidental.

Cheers

Ian

ruffrecords said:

Not quite the whole story but of course any mention of Brexit makes it newsworthy. What Nissan said was that falling European sales of their 4x4 due to competition from hybrids and electric cars meant they have abandoned plans to make their next generation 4x4 in Europe. The fact it is currently made in the UK is incidental.

Cheers

Ian

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Typical "cherry picked" misinformation by the mainstream media machine.

DaveP said:

The original Brexit vote was a "snapshot" of how the country felt in 2016,  This was before all the real facts and analysis came out.  A "snapshot" vote in 2019 would almost certainly be more like 51.9% to remain in the EU.  Parliament and almost everyone else knows this, but it is "the truth which dare not speak its name".

After May's deal was voted down, Parliament is now voting on least worst options to try to clear the muddy waters, we will know more after today.

DaveP

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Stayed out of this one so far - watching from the side lines for some time

BUT - that looks like speculation/opinion Dave.  My opinion is that most people still want a separation due to the European's want of a world super state but want it over and done with.

What also appears to me however, is that Whitehall politicians have their own personal agendas.  As usual follow the money and see how many politicians (in particular Conservatives) have business interests that Brexit appears to threaten regardless of what their own constituents voted for.  This is probably the root cause of the in fighting within the Conservative party as well.

Question:  does anyone else see the parallels between the reluctance of the comfortable ruling/political class and the appeasement movement of WWII.  "Please don't let the little people rock the boat and upset my comfortable lifestyle and gravy train:  after all we know what is better for them?"

Mike

No Mike, I don’t see any parallel from my perspective.
I see two main political parties split down the middle, fighting for short term power irrespective of the longterm interests of anyone, anywhere. But maybe I am biased.
I also see that no other EU member States have followed the path of the U.K. so far.

tony hunt said:

No Mike, I don’t see any parallel from my perspective.
I see two main political parties split down the middle, fighting for short term power irrespective of the longterm interests of anyone, anywhere. But maybe I am biased.
I also see that no other EU member States have followed the path of the U.K. so far.

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On the other hand Switzerland recently voted NOT to join the EU. I spoke a few weeks ago with a Swiss national who told me their feelings for why they did not want to join are very similar to those of the UK for wanting to leave.

Cheers

Ian

madswitcher said:

Question:  does anyone else see the parallels between the reluctance of the comfortable ruling/political class and the appeasement movement of WWII.  "Please don't let the little people rock the boat and upset my comfortable lifestyle and gravy train:  after all we know what is better for them?"

Mike

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The exception to the rule was of course Churchill. He regularly went AWOL during WW2 to talk to ordinary folk to find out what they really felt.

Cheers

Ian

What also appears to me however, is that Whitehall politicians have their own personal agendas.  As usual follow the money and see how many politicians (in particular Conservatives) have business interests that Brexit appears to threaten regardless of what their own constituents voted for.  This is probably the root cause of the in fighting within the Conservative party as well.

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I think it would not be fair to tar all MP's with the same brush, some are in it for themselves, but many are in it to change things for the better if they can; Labour as well.

Not all leave voters have Ian's intellect, many are what JR politely calls "Low information Voters".  Many people have felt the pain of the recession and the following period of austerity.  It doesn't seem sensible to inflict oneself with another big dip in living standards after the last 11 years we've had.  This is what is on the minds of those MP's who voted remain.  I don't doubt that after five years the UK would recover to the living standards it now has, but the cost/benefit analysis does not look good.

MP's are on a hiding to nothing, if it all goes pear shaped they will get the blame, because the leave voters are hardly likely to admit they made a mistake after all.  IMHO, this is why MP's are having trouble signing it off.

DaveP

What Nissan said was that falling European sales of their 4x4 due to competition from hybrids and electric cars meant they have abandoned plans to make their next generation 4x4 in Europe. The fact it is currently made in the UK is incidental.

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Also not quite the whole story, cos not 'incidental'.

At best, Nissan's move is ambiguous -- and as such, very Japanese.

Sure, de Ficchy et al. want to go through with the product. But businesses just hate it when they can't 'calculate' the future.

I find it noteworthy that Nissan has announced its decision only a few days after the framework of the long-discussed free trade deal between Japan and the EU has finally become effective.

Of course it doesn't mean much. But l, for my part, am looking forward to cheaper wine and cheese . Was it cheaper Japanese cars that Europeans get in return?