Are those Rayking mic capsules on Alibaba any good?
« on: April 18, 2018, 06:05:13 AM »
I assume they're not fantastic, but would they be usable in a DIY project or multi pattern mod?

I'm a little skeptical looking at the specs since the frequency response looks really generic which makes me think it's inaccurate or that these capsules are sourced a lot.

Does anyone have experience using these capsules or similarly priced wholesale Chinese LDC capsules. I'm especially interested in the edge terminated C12 style ones.

Also do C12 capsules require corrective EQ? My initial impression is that they would but Microphone-Parts says that their RK12 capsule can be used on a flat circuit and sometimes even recommends it.


RuudNL

Re: Are those Rayking mic capsules on Alibaba any good?
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2018, 07:15:24 AM »
C12 capsules don't need a de-emphasis network, although the top end is sometimes slighty rolled off.
It is all a matter of taste...
Most Chinese C12 capsules are just edge terminated K67 capsules.
There is a solution for every problem!

http://www.vansteenisaudio.nl

Re: Are those Rayking mic capsules on Alibaba any good?
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2018, 07:21:14 AM »
C12 capsules don't need a de-emphasis network, although the top end is sometimes slighty rolled off.
It is all a matter of taste...
Good to know. I just have concerns seeing the frequency response having a 2 dB dip and then a 6 dB boost. Of course that may be based on some bad advice about frequency plots.

Do you know if those sourced $28~ wholesale C12 capsules are decent sounding? Something makes me think that they're similar to what some mic mod/DIY places sell, but that's just a guess.

RuudNL

Re: Are those Rayking mic capsules on Alibaba any good?
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2018, 09:32:21 AM »
I don't think that it is a big secret that a well known Microphone DIY/mod company sells Chinese capsules.
With extra quality control. (Anyway: that is what they say...)
There is a solution for every problem!

http://www.vansteenisaudio.nl

Re: Are those Rayking mic capsules on Alibaba any good?
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2018, 11:40:37 PM »
I don't think that it is a big secret that a well known Microphone DIY/mod company sells Chinese capsules.
With extra quality control. (Anyway: that is what they say...)
New to audio in general and especially DIY stuff but that makes sense. Do you happen to know who they source their capsules from?

RuudNL

Re: Are those Rayking mic capsules on Alibaba any good?
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2018, 02:42:20 AM »
I have an idea where they are from, but I am not sure about that.
The problem is that most microphone capsule manufacturers are not willing to sell you a small number of capsules.
Usually they have a MOQ of 50 pcs. (Or even 100 pcs.)
There is a solution for every problem!

http://www.vansteenisaudio.nl

Re: Are those Rayking mic capsules on Alibaba any good?
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2018, 03:43:29 AM »
I have an idea where they are from, but I am not sure about that.
The problem is that most microphone capsule manufacturers are not willing to sell you a small number of capsules.
Usually they have a MOQ of 50 pcs. (Or even 100 pcs.)
That's why I looking into Rayking and other stuff on Alibaba because they sell in pretty low numbers. But I can't find any reviews (at around $28/pc and a min of 10 pcs I don't know how good they'd be) and the only thing I've read about those was a thread where someone said theirs sounded really scooped. Maybe I'll just wait for another group buy or wait for a single capsule to pop up somewhere.

Thanks for all the help though.

Re: Are those Rayking mic capsules on Alibaba any good?
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2018, 03:17:47 PM »
I have one if these and i like it better than any other oem k67 capsule. It doesnt have random dips and resonances k67 copies tend to have. While it might be bright (not too bright) that hf rise is gradual and smooth. With a little bit of eq you get extremelly flat response.

Re: Are those Rayking mic capsules on Alibaba any good?
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2018, 11:06:57 PM »
My goal in using an edge terminated capsule would be to do a capsule swap for an inexpensive multi pattern FET condenser (and eventually replace/upgrade the other components) if that helps determine whether those capsules could work.
I have one if these and i like it better than any other oem k67 capsule. It doesnt have random dips and resonances k67 copies tend to have. While it might be bright (not too bright) that hf rise is gradual and smooth. With a little bit of eq you get extremelly flat response.
Is it the center terminated one you have? I may consider one of those too, but I'm mainly interested in the edge terminated one. From what I saw in another thread you found the C12 style capsule to be very scooped sounding right?

If you did find a cheap edge terminated multi pattern C12 style capsule that sounds decent I'd like to know which it is if you remember, because they have a ton of duplicate listings.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2018, 06:36:42 AM by Icantthinkofaname »

Re: Are those Rayking mic capsules on Alibaba any good?
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2018, 05:57:48 AM »
No the one i have is edge terminated, i just compared it's frequency response to k67 capsules. K67 copies tend to have these random dips, so i actually prefer this c12 to most k67.

It is scooped, but that is what c12 should be. It is not that it lacks mids, but it has low end bump and high end bump, but they are very smooth and controlable. I have also Tim Campbells CT12 and that one is even more scooped. I was worried about how they connected wires to those, but they seem to have fixed that. It is the same capsule found in Telefunken AR51 ;)


Re: Are those Rayking mic capsules on Alibaba any good?
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2018, 07:34:48 AM »
No the one i have is edge terminated, i just compared it's frequency response to k67 capsules. K67 copies tend to have these random dips, so i actually prefer this c12 to most k67.

It is scooped, but that is what c12 should be. It is not that it lacks mids, but it has low end bump and high end bump, but they are very smooth and controlable. I have also Tim Campbells CT12 and that one is even more scooped. I was worried about how they connected wires to those, but they seem to have fixed that. It is the same capsule found in Telefunken AR51 ;)
I'll definitely look into getting one then. Did you get the single sided or double sided capsule?

This is the double sided one I'm looking at (though they're not clear on the max SPL, just saying it's over 72 dB A which I find a bit concering). The frequency graph looks identical to the ones I found for the C 12 VR so I'm guessing they just used those ones






« Last Edit: April 20, 2018, 08:39:46 AM by Icantthinkofaname »

Re: Are those Rayking mic capsules on Alibaba any good?
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2018, 10:50:50 AM »
Those specs come most probably from universe. I have that one, and contacts were soldered in that maner. I have to sided capsule. That frequency response graph is not corrert. You can find FR of microphone parts RK12 compared to other well known mics, and that is the same capsule as this one. It takes 130db spl no problem if circuit allows that.

You can start here and take it from there. It is great capsule for the price!


https://microphone-parts.com/products/rk12-microphone-capsule

Re: Are those Rayking mic capsules on Alibaba any good?
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2018, 06:57:14 PM »
You can contact them and ask them for samples and they usually will sell you a couple.  I have a couple here,  haven't put them in anything yet but gonna try it out in the fet847 circuit first and see how it compares to the rk47 that's currently in there.


Re: Are those Rayking mic capsules on Alibaba any good?
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2018, 09:33:31 PM »
Here are some of my measures to get perspective. Be aware this is from my control room, so different dips and valleys are due to my room. However, the differences are pretty clear.

Blue line is vintage Neumann u87 with flat circuit! So no de emphasis and low roll of, pure capsule.

Red one is two sided Rayking c12.

Green one is Tim Campbell's CT12.

And this is perfect example how graphs don't tell the whole story, for example i had issues with sibilance almost every time i used u87, even in it's stock circuit with de emphasis.

However i never have sibilance issue with Tim's capsule even though it is way brighter. 90% of the time, on my own vocal i don't even use EQ, just low cut and compression.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 09:51:50 PM by kingkorg »

Re: Are those Rayking mic capsules on Alibaba any good?
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2018, 09:50:45 PM »
And here are starting from 1K for better resolution:
Blue - U87
Red - Rayking
Purple - OEM k67

The DIP between 5k and 8k on purple is typical for all of copies k67 i have tested so far. Neumann is the only one that doesn't have it. And it is absent in this Rayking as well, that is why i like it. With correct EQ applied it can sound closer to u87 than any k67 copy i have tested so far. Shure KSM44 doesn't have this dip either, and is known for sounding close to u87 even though it's edge terminated. I can agree with that.

My mic with Rayking capsule has switch that turns on and off this corrective eq, and therefore i have incredibly close u87 sounding mic and c12-ish sounding one with a flip of the switch.

Of course the mic with Tim Campbell's capsule is the only one of these that offers true C12/Elam character.

My own theory is that ''harshness'' in OEM k67 capsules comes from this dip just before huge HF rise. Try this kind of EQ on any source and it WILL GET HARSH! I believe it is very complex phase/resonance issue and is therefore not fixable with any kind of EQ. 

I have given up on making u87 clone until i find original capsule for reasonable price. Until then this Rayking capsule is closest so far. I have asked few manufacturers of capsules that claim they produce spot on k67 replicas for frequency response measurements without smoothing. No one was willing to provide them.

« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 10:09:31 PM by kingkorg »

Re: Are those Rayking mic capsules on Alibaba any good?
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2018, 10:37:09 PM »
This one is off topic but very interesting. To get perspective on how amazing Tim's CT12 is, this is comparison against impulse response from Townsend Labs microphone emulator.

So dark one is impulse response from Townsend labs Sphere software, it is not acoustic measurement, but impulse response that is applied to flat microphone in order to make it sound like Elam 251. So it is in essence measured frequency response of Elam they modeled for software. And i am sure they didn't pick just any Elam.

The lighter one is acoustical measurement of my microphone without HF roll off capacitor. So you can see extended high end compared to impulse. This is with all of imperfections of my monitors and space and they are so close!

I did apply smoothing, as it is clearly applied to the impulse as well. I get some low end bump on my mic due to proximity effect and my mic's circuit is flat all the way down. Elam 251 is not.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 10:46:53 PM by kingkorg »

Re: Are those Rayking mic capsules on Alibaba any good?
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2018, 03:57:50 AM »
Do you know if the RK12 capsules will work with 48V of phantom power? It's my understanding that the original C12 capsule was designed for 60V so I just want to make sure that the clone capsules will work with a normal 48V. I assume they will since Microphone-Parts mostly sells FET condenser parts and kits and the capsule is the one they use (or at least near identical).

When I have some money saved up I'd really love to buy a really high end capsule but for right now that's not an option.

I'm also interested in finding a cheap donor mic for a capsule swap. Something with a linear circuit and lowish self noise would be nice. If I could find a cheap CAD M179 would that be an option? Also looking at the GXL3000 and Behringer B2 Pro but I think the latter has corrective EQ.


I've heard that the 3U Audio Warblers can get pretty flat sounding if you get the U87 style one.

Khron

Re: Are those Rayking mic capsules on Alibaba any good?
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2018, 03:27:07 PM »
Do you mean, with the polarisation voltage derived straight from the phantom power, ie. without any DC-DC converter? Or..?

Do you know if the RK12 capsules will work with 48V of phantom power? It's my understanding that the original C12 capsule was designed for 60V so I just want to make sure that the clone capsules will work with a normal 48V.
Khron's Cave - Electronics - Audio - Teardowns - Mods - Repairs - Projects - Music - Rants - Shenanigans

Re: Are those Rayking mic capsules on Alibaba any good?
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2018, 02:45:57 AM »
Do you mean, with the polarisation voltage derived straight from the phantom power, ie. without any DC-DC converter? Or..?
Would it work just like that, or do you need to install a converter? I haven't done any DIY mic stuff yet so I'm pretty unfamiliar. I just now that capsule swapping is supposed to be relatively easy.


 

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