ribbon mic:The TSXV-1 w/neo'S & ring MRC ..!! FIRST PICS
« on: June 16, 2005, 01:03:14 PM »
hey friends
I have finally received my neo's
they are SWEET! :grin:
i will construct a "ring MRC" (magnetic return circuit) as suggested by xvlk
hence the name the "tsxv-1"  :grin:

I plan on using 4 neo's (2 per side) 50x5x1 mm.
does anyone think this may bee too much?
i will have both a MRC and pole peices.

as always your kind comments , help and suggestions are sincrely appreciated

later
ts
I need help with  RCA BA-43/ BA-45. RCA BA-25a, RCA BC3 mic pre's, Gates Level Devil, Federal AM-864u, DIY la2a stuff, Altec 436b


nhaudio

Re: ribbon mic:The TSXV-1 w/neodymium & ring MRC pics so
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2005, 06:00:49 PM »
Quote from: "ToobieSnack"
hey friends
I have finally received my neo's
they are SWEET! :grin:
i will construct a "ring MRC" (magnetic return circuit) as suggested by xvlk
hence the name the "tsxv-1"  :grin:

I plan on using 4 neo's (2 per side) 50x5x1 CM.
does anyone think this may bee too much?
i will have both a MRC and pole peices.

as always your kind comments , help and suggestions are sincrely appreciated

later




where did you get your neo's?
cheers,

Nick
ts

ribbon mic:The TSXV-1 w/neo'S & ring MRC ..!! FIRST PICS
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2005, 02:25:54 AM »
hey all

i have some pretty cool news

 i went to the hardware store yesterday and i got these huge steel washers
my neo's fit perfectly down the center of these :grin:
previously i had planned to grind/cut a groove for my neo;s to rest in but....

upon further contemplation i realized that i could simply fill the arch gap between my magnets and my inner ring  edges with
 an epoxy (JB Weld) that has magnetic and electrically conductive properties.

next time i will try to find washers with a square hole in the middle :dooh: :shock: :idea: :grin:

i am reminded of that saying something to the effect

neccesity is the mother of invention

well... :grin: it was absolutely necessary for me to find a way to do this easily with the available tools and materials i have at hand.. :wink:

i also decided to ditch the idea of haveing 4 bolts down through the tops of the washers to attach them together

obviously this would be a very "military" way of doing things and would no doubt be solid as a tank ....but...
well ... a ribbon mic doesn't need to withstand the force of re-attaching your hubcab to your car in the event of a flat tire.. lol

and the magnets alone do a fair job of holding things in place ... so..
i decided that the epoxy will be sufficient for my requirements..

maybe the tsxv-2 will have these upgrade options hehe lol

any way i am getting all the parts together before i go beyond my mock up version...
since fito has posted his one day ribbon mic .. it has peaked my interest
 and now it has become a personal goal of mine
 to see how quick it can be done .... (dang you fito hehe lol .. now i have my very own personal fox to chase)
married with this design i think that the graceful simplicty of the design will also facilitate a quicker construction time...

hehe no pun intended but
time will tell :wink:

anyway i am very eager to proceed with this project ... even though i am quite busy :grin:

the mock up pics will be coming soon and then the real challenge begins and everything must be carefully laid out for the best results.

only then can i post actual construction info and pics
it may seem that this project is moving slow but...
don't blink .... :shock: :grin: it will be over before you know it.. hehe
well at least that's the plan ... :grin:

hope you all enjoy my journey
i'll keep you updated

later
ts
I need help with  RCA BA-43/ BA-45. RCA BA-25a, RCA BC3 mic pre's, Gates Level Devil, Federal AM-864u, DIY la2a stuff, Altec 436b

ribbon mic:The TSXV-1 w/neo'S & ring MRC ..!! FIRST PICS
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2005, 05:12:02 PM »
hi all
i have a question about the details of this design..
my washers measure 1 3/4" across
with a 3/4" hole in the middle
this leaves a perimiter of steel 1/2" x 1/16" around my magnets.
will these horizontal planes have some "wave guide" or cancelling effects as the bounce off of these surfaces?
i plan on spacing them at about 3/32" and using ten washers.
it looks nice and i do plan on having some dampening material between the layers.

opinions... theories?

as always your kind comments help and suggestions are sincerely appreciated.

later
ts
I need help with  RCA BA-43/ BA-45. RCA BA-25a, RCA BC3 mic pre's, Gates Level Devil, Federal AM-864u, DIY la2a stuff, Altec 436b

ribbon mic:The TSXV-1 w/neo'S & ring MRC ..!! FIRST PICS
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2005, 11:39:27 AM »
ok update

i decided to change my spacing to a full 1/4"
i am now using 6 washers instead of 10
it was very handy to use some #2 pencils as spacers... :grin:
with the lenght of neodymium i am using this worked out perfectly ... :grin:

this above question still remains as it relates to the effects of these perpendicular horizontal planes created by the washer surface and it's effect on the entering sound waves/pressure.

can some one please offer their opinion on this?
thanks
ts
I need help with  RCA BA-43/ BA-45. RCA BA-25a, RCA BC3 mic pre's, Gates Level Devil, Federal AM-864u, DIY la2a stuff, Altec 436b

ribbon mic:The TSXV-1 w/neo'S & ring MRC ..!! FIRST PICS
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2005, 03:36:49 PM »
Quote from: "ToobieSnack"

Tobie,
photo of mic, please
(with meter in metric units, my head do not compute inches,
legs, hands, foots and eyes)

... and drink one coffee of coffee,

                            xvlk

ribbon mic:The TSXV-1 w/neo'S & ring MRC ..!! FIRST PICS
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2005, 04:13:23 PM »
xvlk thanks so much for your help.
i know yoiu are very busy
this is very kind of you ... as usual :wink:

my daughter had the camera and now she is back

 i will take a pic of my "mock up" and get the meaurements you requested..
1000 thanks
ts
I need help with  RCA BA-43/ BA-45. RCA BA-25a, RCA BC3 mic pre's, Gates Level Devil, Federal AM-864u, DIY la2a stuff, Altec 436b

ribbon mic:The TSXV-1 w/neo'S & ring MRC ..!! FIRST PICS
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2005, 01:58:23 PM »
Quote from: "ToobieSnack"

my daughter had the camera

What about foto of your daughter with the mic ?
Beauty is good to be together    :-)

                                               xvlk

ribbon mic:The TSXV-1 w/neo'S & ring MRC ..!! FIRST PICS
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2005, 01:16:37 AM »
hey xvlk and others
xvlk ... the pic of the art is an original from my daughter .. this is her choice ... she thought it would be more appropriate ... since the mic looks like the pic ... :grin:

here are the long awaited pics

the white center part is where the ribbon will reside.
this is just a mock up ...




hope this helps to understand my goals ..
thanks
ts
I need help with  RCA BA-43/ BA-45. RCA BA-25a, RCA BC3 mic pre's, Gates Level Devil, Federal AM-864u, DIY la2a stuff, Altec 436b

ribbon mic:The TSXV-1 w/neo'S & ring MRC ..!! FIRST PICS
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2005, 09:56:58 AM »
and daughter looks like mic and the pic  :-)

How about induction obtained in the gap. ????
Please, can You measure it. It is simple, Hall probe.

And frequency response ???    How about ribbon arrangement,
that clothes hides everything.


       xvlk


ribbon mic:The TSXV-1 w/neo'S & ring MRC ..!! FIRST PICS
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2005, 10:29:39 AM »
xvlk thanks for your kind comments ...

please realize this is NOT built ... this is only a "mock up"
mock up= parts are not permenantly attached ... no epoxy has been used yet .. only the magnets flux hold everything together now ...

and the cloth you speak of is actually plastic spacers ... for planning purpose only
 ...these plastic spacers will be removed when the epoxy has been applied and had time to dry.... then...
i will remove the plastic spacers ..... install a ribbon in it's place ...

i don't have a hall probe ... :sad:
i will try to find one i can use ...but.... i don't know if i will be successful in finding a hall probe...

ALSO: i'll find my metric ruler and get some dimensions for you.

thanks
ts
I need help with  RCA BA-43/ BA-45. RCA BA-25a, RCA BC3 mic pre's, Gates Level Devil, Federal AM-864u, DIY la2a stuff, Altec 436b

ribbon mic:The TSXV-1 w/neo'S & ring MRC ..!! FIRST PICS
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2005, 10:57:29 AM »
really cool stuff TS... How are you planning on doing the ribbon clamping? thats been the hardest part for me...

ribbon mic:The TSXV-1 w/neo'S & ring MRC ..!! FIRST PICS
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2005, 12:05:38 PM »
Quote from: "ToobieSnack"

and the cloth you speak of is actually plastic spacers

yes, that magnets rather thin, but could be O.K.
for some 0.6 T.
For 0.8 T you need neodyms so thick like gap.
Hall probe is on every older Floppy disc drive.
it is some SMD-transistor looking device under magnet glued onto
inertor.
it have four legs - one grounded , one connected via resistor to +5 V
and two goes to the big IC.
that two connect to the multimeter and
measure mV.

the GND and + connect via resistor of several kOhms to the 4,5 or 9 V battery.
Then you must calibrate it. I use magend gap from HDD which I
calibrate at school metrology lab.

I never use FDD hall probe. I use Hall probes from old Betamax recorder.

                  xvlk

ribbon mic:The TSXV-1 w/neo'S & ring MRC ..!! FIRST PICS
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2005, 01:35:28 PM »
xvlk thanks for that info on building a hall probe ... :thumb:
this should be valuable to all ... :grin:

ALSO: my magnets are 1mm x 4 magnets =4mm .... my gap is 5 mm ...
is this the thickness i need OR ...

should i have 1mm x 8 magnets = 8mm .... and gap of 4mm?????

do i total all magnets thickness = total gap or ....
one side of magnets = total gap? (eg,, total magnets thickness both sides..... divided ... by 2  ?????)

thanks
ts
I need help with  RCA BA-43/ BA-45. RCA BA-25a, RCA BC3 mic pre's, Gates Level Devil, Federal AM-864u, DIY la2a stuff, Altec 436b

ribbon mic:The TSXV-1 w/neo'S & ring MRC ..!! FIRST PICS
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2005, 02:04:24 PM »
Quote
really cool stuff TS... How are you planning on doing the ribbon clamping? thats been the hardest part for me...


thanks for your kind comments...

the ribbon clamps are what is holding me up .. i have some theories ...
i put this mock up version where i pass by it all day long and each time i think about it until i have an epiphany ..
(sudden realization ... a burst of enlightenment)

this is the idea i have so far

the magnets came with these plastic spacers that have a slot routed out of the middle about 1" long ..
i plan on laying this across the top and using 2 peices of metal on either side of the plastic spaceer ..
a screw will travel through the top peice of metal and through the slot in the plastic
 to be received through the slot by the second peice of metal drilled and tapped to the screw thread size..

this will allow for "left / right" adjustment of the ribbon ..

i wanted to have ribbon tension adjust too ... from the top .. like el fito ..
i was thinking of putting the mechanism at the bottom like a "see . saw" (lever)
so that it could be adjusted from the top ... even thought the mechanism is located at the bottom ...

maybe this one will have no tension adjust ... or be only adjustable from the bottom ...
i love my current mic profile .... the looks :grin: so,,,
i don't want something ugly on the top ... :sad:
any ideas or suggestion for this .???


anyway as soon as i fugure out how i can add this adjustment construction will begin ..
again realize a portion of my goal is build this VERY quickly .. so my plan is of utmost importance ...

as always your kind comments help and suggestion are sincerely appreciated

thanks
ts
I need help with  RCA BA-43/ BA-45. RCA BA-25a, RCA BC3 mic pre's, Gates Level Devil, Federal AM-864u, DIY la2a stuff, Altec 436b

ribbon mic:The TSXV-1 w/neo'S & ring MRC ..!! FIRST PICS
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2005, 02:27:37 PM »
Quote from: "ToobieSnack"
xvlk thanks for that info on building a hall probe ... :thumb:
this should be valuable to all ... :grin:

ALSO: my magnets are 1mm x 4 magnets =4mm .... my gap is 5 mm ...
is this the thickness i need OR ...

should i have 1mm x 8 magnets = 8mm .... and gap of 4mm?????

do i total all magnets thickness = total gap or ....
one side of magnets = total gap? (eg,, total magnets thickness both sides..... divided ... by 2  ?????)

If you double magnets, you will not double flux.
half width ribbon adds noise by 3 dB. (twice the resistance)
You can use uncalibrated hall probe for experiment.
If you use twice more magnets and measured voltage (on the hall probe)
will be sqrt(2) higher, you gets more signal by magnets than
noise from half-width ribbon.
It is without respect transformer - induced noise, that says that every
added flux is OK, but low freq corner gets higher.
It is tradeoff. If you measure noise figure O.K., your design is O.K.

But really ribbon mic is not merely computing and more is
comfortable - ribbon mounting, stability, etc.
I had experimented with different ribbons, narrow ribbons, and I saw to hard to work with it.
And wider ribbon is more stable, microphone is rugger, it uses Gayford
in his very rudge commenters microphones,

but using 6 x 1mm magnets can be better.
                           xvlk

ribbon mic:The TSXV-1 w/neo'S & ring MRC ..!! FIRST PICS
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2005, 02:51:25 PM »

T - BONE

     xvlk

El Fito

ribbon mic:The TSXV-1 w/neo'S & ring MRC ..!! FIRST PICS
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2005, 06:25:58 PM »
Hey Toobie, cool stuff. That mic body is quite cool, and simplicity itself. I'm keeping some stuff under my bonnet, ribbon-wise... but not long until I release big news now... stay tuned, you're gonna love it!

Marik

ribbon mic:The TSXV-1 w/neo'S & ring MRC ..!! FIRST PICS
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2005, 09:13:55 AM »
Quote from: "xvlk"

yes, that magnets rather thin, but could be O.K.
for some 0.6 T.
For 0.8 T you need neodyms so thick like gap.

Hall probe is on every older Floppy disc drive.
...
I never use FDD hall probe. I use Hall probes from old Betamax recorder.


0.6T??? :shock:
With magnets that size you won't get more than 0.3T max.
For 0.8T you will need magnets at least 10mm thick.

The Hall elements from FDD and HDD are way too sensitive for measuring magnets. I will write more in the dedicated thread.
Samar Audio & Microphone Design

www.samaraudiodesign.com

The Art of Ribbon Microphones

ribbon mic:The TSXV-1 w/neo'S & ring MRC ..!! FIRST PICS
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2005, 11:26:13 AM »
Quote from: "Marik"
With magnets that size you won't get more than 0.3T max.
For 0.8T you will need magnets at least 10mm thick.

Not allways, Tobbie says, that gap/ neodym width is 1:1.
0.8 T may be in  2:1 gap/Neodym, every HDD have it.

I mean, that Tobbie have 0.6 T, or slightly less.

That your 10 mm thick is because you have no magnetic return.

By the way, Marik, what about magnetic circuit calculator for me ?????
                     xvlk


 

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