1176 - the cannibalization continues!
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3nity
Well-known member
Its smells funny.
rock soderstrom
Tour de France
The price tag is unreal... 
At that price point, it's a hobby company
not that I would... uhhh.. know anything about running a hobby company.
not that I would... uhhh.. know anything about running a hobby company.
Claim to be building an initial run of 500? Why do I think they'll be selling those for a long time? Maybe not, but maybe so. The wall wart will scare a portion off, who just don't want to mess with that. I got the idea several years ago those sort of AC wall transformers were on the way out, legally speaking.
I just wanna know why there's not a single rack space dual channel on the market, like mnats built once upon a time. The adherence to original package is shocking to me, seems to prove very few people own any rack gear. Once you own enough, you start wanting smaller footprints....
I just wanna know why there's not a single rack space dual channel on the market, like mnats built once upon a time. The adherence to original package is shocking to me, seems to prove very few people own any rack gear. Once you own enough, you start wanting smaller footprints....
pucho812
Well-known member
wall wort or not the sluts will be all over it. they always are. I met one the other day who dropped in for a repair on some modules the whole time He was there was talking my head off about gear. just kept going and going and going.
critterkllr
Well-known member
This seems great to me. Nobody has heard it yet, so I don't understand the cynicism. Regardless, it's good to see the trend of quality recording gear becoming more available to the average musician/engineer.
3nity
Well-known member
rev D on top of that!
last time i built a rev D costs were around 400-450$.
last time i built a rev D costs were around 400-450$.
There's bound to be cynicism when something crushes existing business models, and possibly hurts those who have gone before....members of this forum who've worked hard to bring the 1176 back into existence for DIY. It reminds me of Heathkit and Eico, who could no longer sell kits at any relevant discount compared to incoming finished product from others. Bye bye they went. Who is it good for, and who is it bad for?
critterkllr
Well-known member
I guess the appropriate step would be to show the differences between the originals, the hairball and the WA76 when it comes out. It's hard to imagine any clone coming around that can actually compete against the quality of the hairball kit. Are people familiar with the transformers used and how they compare to Ed Anderson's? I view saving money as a side effect of DIY and not the main selling point. If I can take the time to build a top quality 1176 compressor while learning how it works and how to calibrate it, I'll pay the extra $100 over something that is "pretty close".
Kingston
Well-known member
rock soderstrom said:The price tag is unreal...
Not really. Even with a small production run under 1000 they will still be able to make decent profit. This has been quite doable for more than a decade already, even before SMD parts. The only limiting and price-increasing factors from a very large production run point of view are the several more specialised parts like the output transformers and those interlocking switches. Perhaps some trimming required also. Other than that there's nothing to stop a product like this being tooled for some generic chinese factory.
Kingston
Well-known member
critterkllr said:
Lot's of people have. Those Cinemags have been around much longer than the Ed Anderson clones as far as I remember. They sound great.
This new clone will sound exactly like any good DIY 1176 clone. Unless they fail miserably and have product quality issues I see this product as quite a refreshing take on cloning. Also shows many people how incredibly inflated the UA reissue prices are.
pucho812
Well-known member
Warning Rant.
enough with the clones already, do we need another 1176 copy from a commercial manufacture? DIY is one thing this is something completely different. I guess the new business model is copy a product that someone else designed. A product that UA took two years of R&D to make a faithful recreation of(so says UA) and a product that has roots with UA/UREI. Next you cheap it up by things like wall worts and other such crap. Then you put it out on the market and sell it for much cheaper. Compare it to sex you pay more for the real thing then a rubber doll. This is a rubber doll compared to a UA 1176 and or an original. I don't get it. I know you cannot copyright a circuit but it's downright fraud. Is this what commercial pro audio has become, plug in's and hardware units that are all the same. I get the 1176 being a great compressor, costs and so forth but do we really need another hardware copy? More over do we need more software copies of the same thing? This is what happens when people who can't really design stuff try and get into an already over crowded audio market place. Now granted UA/Urei already made back cost of R&D and then some but come on, do something original, give it a new name/number or at least make it look different.. If the dude could design something then maybe his only offerings wouldn't be clones. But then again I could say that for a lot of other commercial companies doing pultec cliones, LA2A clones, Neve 10XX clones, mic clones, clones, clones, clones. Most of what I see these days is clones and it's such a disappointment.
enough with the clones already, do we need another 1176 copy from a commercial manufacture? DIY is one thing this is something completely different. I guess the new business model is copy a product that someone else designed. A product that UA took two years of R&D to make a faithful recreation of(so says UA) and a product that has roots with UA/UREI. Next you cheap it up by things like wall worts and other such crap. Then you put it out on the market and sell it for much cheaper. Compare it to sex you pay more for the real thing then a rubber doll. This is a rubber doll compared to a UA 1176 and or an original. I don't get it. I know you cannot copyright a circuit but it's downright fraud. Is this what commercial pro audio has become, plug in's and hardware units that are all the same. I get the 1176 being a great compressor, costs and so forth but do we really need another hardware copy? More over do we need more software copies of the same thing? This is what happens when people who can't really design stuff try and get into an already over crowded audio market place. Now granted UA/Urei already made back cost of R&D and then some but come on, do something original, give it a new name/number or at least make it look different.. If the dude could design something then maybe his only offerings wouldn't be clones. But then again I could say that for a lot of other commercial companies doing pultec cliones, LA2A clones, Neve 10XX clones, mic clones, clones, clones, clones. Most of what I see these days is clones and it's such a disappointment.
At the risk of stating the obvious the original products went out of production because they were eclipsed by newer better (cheaper) technology. The real question in my mind is when do we run out of new people to buy the faux old products.
Maybe never, but if you build them 1000 at a pop probably sooner than later.
JR
Maybe never, but if you build them 1000 at a pop probably sooner than later.
JR
Jonte Knif
Well-known member
Boring stuff indeed.
He has a theory which I find plausible:
http://edge.org/conversation/infinite-stupidity-edge-conversation-with-mark-pagel
-Jonte
He has a theory which I find plausible:
http://edge.org/conversation/infinite-stupidity-edge-conversation-with-mark-pagel
-Jonte
ruffrecords
Well-known member
Jonte Knif said:
I think he has it completely wrong. He says: "And so, in the cold calculus of evolution by natural selection, at no greater time in history than ever before, copiers are probably doing better than innovators. Because innovation is extraordinarily hard."
The logic is unsound. You cannot conclude copiers are (probably) doing better than innovators simply because innovation is so hard. All that means is there are a lot fewer innovators than copiers - but that's nothing new. Those few innovators develop products no one else has and so they sell like hot cakes and probably ding better than the copiers who face endless competition from loads of other copiers with exactly the same skills. The innovators may not be as visible as the copiers but that does not mean they are not doing as well.
For example, who gets a royalty on every MP3 chip produced - a small institute in Germany. Who gets a royalty on every ARM processor embedded in a phone or what have you - a little company in Cambridge. Apple is an innovator - not exactly doing badly either. And there are plenty more examples.
In the last war such talk was called defeatism. it still is.
Cheers
Ian
ruffrecords said:
Apple is an interesting example to make a poster boy for innovation. While they have many defensive patents they are know to have "borrowed" several key innovations over the years. I recall their legal battle with Creative labs over the digital music player IP, years later they quietly settled with Creative the real inventor of portable digital music players. What Apple does brilliantly is execute. and they do that far better then competitors even when using other people's innovations. I do not mean to diminish what Apple does. they create a lot of value from how well they do what they do. The world is waiting for them to reinvent the living room TV set, or the wrist watch next.
JR
PS: A bunch of the original PC/mac computer interface innovation was done by Xerox/PARC years earlier.
In reply to Pucho's rant. And not necessarily directed at Pucho....
It's easy to see nothing but clones, but there are a bunch of good guys out there pluggin away at creating original designs.
There will always be people who are only around trying to cash in on the cheap, flavour of the month product, and there appears to be an insatiable appetite for cheap shit, unfortunately.
I honestly try to focus on the work in front of me, and not get sidetracked by this stuff, but you can't help but see it sometimes.
I see the guys doing real design, putting in the hard work trying to get small companies off the ground, and I do my damnedest to try and help them succeed in any way I can.
The companies doing original work are not getting the attention they deserve. So rather than complain about clones ( which is lending your energy/attention to it, and drawing other people to look at it as well), start threads talking about those companies whose products are deserving of your attention.
You'll not only feel good talking about products you believe in, you'll be helping the company as well, as most of these guys have scruples and will not talk about themselves (or pay shills to do it for them).
$.02
ju
It's easy to see nothing but clones, but there are a bunch of good guys out there pluggin away at creating original designs.
There will always be people who are only around trying to cash in on the cheap, flavour of the month product, and there appears to be an insatiable appetite for cheap shit, unfortunately.
I honestly try to focus on the work in front of me, and not get sidetracked by this stuff, but you can't help but see it sometimes.
I see the guys doing real design, putting in the hard work trying to get small companies off the ground, and I do my damnedest to try and help them succeed in any way I can.
The companies doing original work are not getting the attention they deserve. So rather than complain about clones ( which is lending your energy/attention to it, and drawing other people to look at it as well), start threads talking about those companies whose products are deserving of your attention.
You'll not only feel good talking about products you believe in, you'll be helping the company as well, as most of these guys have scruples and will not talk about themselves (or pay shills to do it for them).
$.02
ju
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