36 mm moisture resistant condenser capsule

[RuudNL]

I got information from a microphone capsule manufacturer, that they developed a 36 mm(!) condenser capsule, that due to the construction isn't sensitive to high air humidity and the infamous 'crackling'.
As far as I read from the information, they use a nickel diafragm of 2 micron.
Information is pretty limited at the moment, but I will try to obtain a couple of samples.
I have no idea about the minimum number of samples they want to sell me, but if you would be interested to try one, let me know.
In the attachment is a frequency response graph of the capsule.

 

[rogs]

I wonder why they've gone to all that trouble when the modulated RF solution to the problem offered by Sennheiser and Rode works well?

I'm guessing that the fact that Rode followed Sennheiser into the market means that patent infringements are not a problem with this technique, so why not simply develop  a new low-Z RF circuit, rather than trying to 're-invent the wheel'  by developing a fundamentally new hardware capsule design?...

 

[Khron]

Perhaps in order to facilitate employing simpler / cheaper circuitry?

I mean, why not solve the root cause of the problem (moisture sensitivity), instead of trying to mitigate it externally?

 

[RuudNL]

It seems the RF approach isn't very easy for DIY.
I once saw someone do this, but he experienced a lot of problems, and the result wasn't still as good as the Sennheiser MKH.
https://www.beis.de/Elektronik/HF-Mic/HF-Mic.html
Anyway, it would be interesting to test this new product.

 

[cyrano]

Very, very interesting. I'm a bit of a fan of MKH mics, but the price is rather high, so any other solution is worth having.

 

[Icantthinkofaname]

Wow that actually sounds pretty promising. Are the capsules single or dual diaphragm? Doesn't iSK also make nickel diaphragm capsules, or are those SDC only?

 

[Recording Engineer]

With that response graph and everything you mention, this sounds like Aseyer/Ningbo Shengke Electronics Co., LTD./iSK

Aseyer released mics some years back with 2-micron nickel diaphragm 36mm capsules and 4-micron aluminum diaphragm 36mm capsules. They also released a couple mics with 4-micron aluminum diaphragm 18mm capsules. They never caught-on at all.

Then iSK released the U99 with the 36mm aluminum capsule (same capsule as Aseyer) and used the moisture/humidity-resistant marketing-angle then. Don’t know how true that really is, nor do I care at all.

I remember Oliver saying he felt aluminum was the ultimate diaphragm-material, some years back, so the U99 capsule really  sparked my interest and I bought a pair of capsule samples from Ningbo Shengke Electronics Co. (iSK). From there, they wanted a minimum order of 100 in 2014.

I finally just put my two capsules to use in a pair of transformerless tube mics. I also recently realized the iSK AT100 is the Tascam TM-80, which uses the 18mm  aluminum version.

Anyhow, I’d go in for anything and everything from them in the nickel and aluminum variety! If they’re anywhere near the 2014 prices, I might grab a half a dozen!

By the way, they’re all cardioid-only.

 

[Recording Engineer]

https://www.beis.de/Elektronik/HF-Mic/HF-Mic.html

Gees, full-circle... Ralf Falk designed the circuit used in my pair of transformerless tube mics I used the 36mm aluminum capsules in! I had contacted him some years back about the capsule he built, but he unfortunately no longer had access to the tools he needed. So, he offered me his transformerless tube mic schematic if I was interested in his take on mics.

 

[kingkorg]

Following

 

[rogs]

It seems the RF approach isn't very easy for DIY.
I once saw someone do this, but he experienced a lot of problems, and the result wasn't still as good as the Sennheiser MKH.
https://www.beis.de/Elektronik/HF-Mic/HF-Mic.html

Looking at the schematic you have linked to - and indeed at one or two Sennheiser schematics - and most of the electronics seem quite suitable for DIY experiments....
It' s the inductors that seem to be the problem.  There appear to be very little detail on the specifics for the Beis schematic inductors (other than the core types) and  -understandably -  there's not going to be any detail on the Sennheiser ones.. 
I haven't (so far) found anything online  that gives any guidance on specifics of creating inductors for this kind of task -- It's that kind of detail that might help 'kick start'  some DIY RF projects...

I did try some experiments using a PLL  (74HC4046) but didn't get very far..... It's not really suitable sadly, but it was fun taking a look... 

 

[Icantthinkofaname]

Could two of these capsules be used to make a multipattern mic? If the frequency response chart there is anything near accurate or honest, it seems like it could make a great mic.

If they can be combined (probably stupid question/idea, I'm no electrical engineer) then I'd go in for a 3 or 4 if there's ever a group buy.

 

[RuudNL]

At the moment the manufacturer is developing a special mount for this new capsule.
They already had one, but were not completely satisfied with the design.
As soon as they can deliver the new capsule with mount, I will order a couple of them!

 

[Recording Engineer]

That’s great... My friend Chris has to rig something up, the same way we he mounted the Sony capsules for me.

 

[Icantthinkofaname]

Any updates on these capsules?

 

[RuudNL]

Yes, they are only single sided, so I canceled my order.

 

[Recording Engineer]

Yes they are... Not sure how you didn’t realize in the first place though.. I knew these had to be the same capsules I was referring to, even if it was under a different name. In fact, I just recently bumped into a Chinese manufacturing site that had them listed as yet another brand; can’t remember what it was now though.

 

[kingkorg]

I am not sure what kind of moisture are we talking about. If its breath moisture, the condensate thats collected on the diaphragm under certain conditions, the regular edge terminated capsule from 797 is 100% resistant to it. No cracks, pops, it just keeps on working.

 

[Khron]

I was wondering the same, whether edge-terminated capsules were (quite) as sensitive to moisture as the center-terminated ones. My hunch was that they "shouldn't" be, given the larger physical separation between the areas moisture could "bridge over".

I am not sure what kind of moisture are we talking about. If its breath moisture, the condensate thats collected on the diaphragm under certain conditions, the regular edge terminated capsule from 797 is 100% resistant to it. No cracks, pops, it just keeps on working.

 

[svyet]

I just stumbled upon the TM-80, then this thread, and also this other GDIY thread.

Has anyone looked into these any deeper?

I'm curious if these could replace my CM4's, specifically for use outdoors since you guys are thinking the capsules are more robust in terms of moisture resistance. With some guidance, I could do my best to create a flat IR/EQ profile for these (unless @kingkorg already has), so it's not critical that they sound as natural as the CM4's out of the box, as long as they can be reasonably corrected when a flatter profile is desired.

In terms of self-noise, according to Tascam's site, they perform 1db worse (17db) than the CM4's (16db). I don't know if that's significant, but still is there any way to improve the self-noise with the existing circuit, or even with a new circuit that would maintain or improve the capsule's frequency response?

As @cyrano and others have said, the MKH are just very expensive, so..any bit of moisture resistance in other mics is a good thing.

Ideally, based on what @soliloqueen has said about the K89 capsule being a perfect candidate for an RF circuit, I'm holding out for an appropriate RF implementation for my TLM 193 (I'm aware of @rogs page and this thread) if anyone knows anything. I would definitely just buy a second (used) TLM 193 and use them for everything, no matter how unwieldy it would be. I wouldn't need anything else. Unless you think even without an RF circuit they are robust enough for reasonable outdoor use? How concerned should I be if I'm not in a super humid environment anyway and when is RF really truly needed?

Thoughts?

 

[kingkorg]

I just stumbled upon the TM-80, then this thread, and also this other GDIY thread.

Has anyone looked into these any deeper?

I'm curious if these could replace my CM4's, specifically for use outdoors since you guys are thinking the capsules are more robust in terms of moisture resistance. With some guidance, I could do my best to create a flat IR/EQ profile for these (unless @kingkorg already has), so it's not critical that they sound as natural as the CM4's out of the box, as long as they can be reasonably corrected when a flatter profile is desired.

In terms of self-noise, according to Tascam's site, they perform 1db worse (17db) than the CM4's (16db). I don't know if that's significant, but still is there any way to improve the self-noise with the existing circuit, or even with a new circuit that would maintain or improve the capsule's frequency response?

As @cyrano and others have said, the MKH are just very expensive, so..any bit of moisture resistance in other mics is a good thing.

Ideally, based on what @soliloqueen has said about the K89 capsule being a perfect candidate for an RF circuit, I'm holding out for an appropriate RF implementation for my TLM 193 (I'm aware of @rogs page and this thread) if anyone knows anything. I would definitely just buy a second TLM 193 and use them for everything, no matter how unwieldy it would be. I wouldn't need anything else. Unless you think even without an RF circuit they are robust enough for reasonable outdoor use? How concerned should I be if I'm not in a super humid environment anyway and when is RF really truly needed?

Thoughts?

Easiest way is to place TM and CM4 30cm away from your monitor tweeter, at exact same position, record pink noise and use matching EQ (Curve EQ?) to derive the correction curve. Use smoothing/resolution based on what sounds best to you. I'm not familiar with TM-80.