Drosselmeier
Well-known member
"Without knowing the brand of solder, the copy will be incomplete"- Holy Silver Solder Society.
I want to make a reliable clone of a C800G microphone
- Thread starter arthurmsc
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Help Support GroupDIY Audio Forum:
Of course, I don't believe in the huge influence of capacitors and resistors. I think that if there is a difference, it is very small compared to the circuit design.
BUT, I want to get as close to the original as possible. This is all purely for the sake of interest and development of horizons. I'm just interested in DIY like everyone else on this forum. In addition, I noticed perfectionism in myself.
The power supply circuit is known, there is nothing complicated about soldering everything together. I think whoever created the SONY power supply and microphone is truly a professional and a genius, but repeating the circuit is not difficult. The only difficulty on my way is very little information, very few photos. Not many people have a Sony microphone. I also want to say that for me the Sony reunion is more of an interesting experiment, maybe a study. I like to dig through a lot of information and find something new for myself, but I’m still a little into the DIY. Every step is a discovery for me and I am very grateful to all the people who share information and their experience!)
BUT, I want to get as close to the original as possible. This is all purely for the sake of interest and development of horizons. I'm just interested in DIY like everyone else on this forum. In addition, I noticed perfectionism in myself.
The power supply circuit is known, there is nothing complicated about soldering everything together. I think whoever created the SONY power supply and microphone is truly a professional and a genius, but repeating the circuit is not difficult. The only difficulty on my way is very little information, very few photos. Not many people have a Sony microphone. I also want to say that for me the Sony reunion is more of an interesting experiment, maybe a study. I like to dig through a lot of information and find something new for myself, but I’m still a little into the DIY. Every step is a discovery for me and I am very grateful to all the people who share information and their experience!)
You’re getting piled-on a bit, but I think your approach is reasonable. It’s hard to know what to focus on at first, so copying everything is one way to try to get the results you want. Just keep in mind you’re very unlikely to hear any differences in PSU reservoir cap brands, especially in a Class A circuit with steady current draw like this one. In a 200W pull-pull power amp with heavy current swings, you might hear subtle differences between caps with more or less ESR and so on.
Btw, there’s more info on the caps and psu here:
https://groupdiy.com/threads/sourcing-caps-for-sony-mc800g-power-supply.40325/
Thank you very much, thank you for your support! This is all very important to me.
Now I have found almost all the original capacitors for the power supply and will start assembling it this week.
Now I need information on the capacitors in the microphone.
I already have a pair of original MGC Japan 0.22F 5.5v. All that remains is: MKP 1uf 250v, 10uf 400v, 330uf 6.3v and 47uf 100v.
I think MKP is TDK(Epcos) and the others are Nippon Chemi-con, but I'm not sure. I need information on this. Photos/Videos, please share what you have.
I would also like to hear your advice on the transformer. Which transformer is better to use for the base?
I'm going to start rewinding the transformer to get closer to the original parameters. Does anyone have measurements of the transformer other than those made by Moby? I'd like to average the values of several Sony transformers and rewind the transformer to a Jensen/Sowter/Cinemag core.
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rock soderstrom
Tour de France
Drosselmeier
Well-known member
Farad not micro
Yes, of course Farad not micro. I corrected it in the message
One point worth noting about the original Sony C800g , they reccomend replacing tube every 1000 hours by sending it in for service , would seem to me the opperating parameters of the tube are the cause of this very low lifespan . It has quite a high anode voltage and a stupidly high value grid resistor , making it hard to find usable tubes .
The tube in the microphone (6zh4p USSR long body) is not a problem for me. I have already bought about 30 6zh4p tubes.
Has anyone looked at what Sony tubes they put in the AC-MC800G power supply? I know that this is a short body type EF94/6AU6. Maybe Telefunken or Toshiba?
It seems simple to me , Sony have compromised the lifespan of the tube in this design ,
1000 hours is a little over 50 days continual use , but it also makes tube selection hit and miss as not all tubes will work properly . Tubes can and should last many years in a tube mic .
1000 hours is a little over 50 days continual use , but it also makes tube selection hit and miss as not all tubes will work properly . Tubes can and should last many years in a tube mic .
I have. They are just re-branded Sony, Japan made - and selected of course.
@ Tubetec wrote: " very low lifespan . It has quite a high anode voltage and a stupidly high value grid resistor , making it hard to find usable tubes. "
50 days of continual use, yeah... Therefore Sony are more than happy to sell you a replacement at stupidly high price. Capitalism/Big Buziness. Yeaaah!
M
made in Japan. OK, thank you.I have. They are just re-branded Sony, Japan made - and selected of course.
@ Tubetec wrote: " very low lifespan . It has quite a high anode voltage and a stupidly high value grid resistor , making it hard to find usable tubes. "
50 days of continual use, yeah... Therefore Sony are more than happy to sell you a replacement at stupidly high price. Capitalism/Big Buziness. Yeaaah!
M
Could you tell me what capacitors are in Sony's microphone? I can't see it because of the poor quality of the photo.I have. They are just re-branded Sony, Japan made - and selected of course.
@ Tubetec wrote: " very low lifespan . It has quite a high anode voltage and a stupidly high value grid resistor , making it hard to find usable tubes. "
50 days of continual use, yeah... Therefore Sony are more than happy to sell you a replacement at stupidly high price. Capitalism/Big Buziness. Yeaaah!
M
Attachments
Nooo,
I'm a poor Old man, my eyes are dim, I cannot see.
Probably Japanese, as everything else is...Japanese?
M
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Of course, everything is Japanese. But I cannot determine specific models of radio components. It's sad that you can't give advice.
Matt Nolan
Well-known member
My first thought is do you have any idea about the subtle intricacies of audio transformer winding? There's a lot more to it than just getting the turns ratio right. I would say this is well beyond the scope of most DIY folks, though not everybody on this forum, of course.
dmp
Well-known member
The IMG_0244 shows those as small orange MKT caps labelled "0.22". Could the schematic have a typo with .22F and they really are 0.22uF? Putting massive .22F caps in the mic just for H+ filtering seems unlikely.
The electrolytics are different brands in different pictures. Even different sizes. Using any high quality axial electrolytic of sufficient voltage would be ok. Learn about the specs of ESR and temperature in order to pick high quality caps. You don't pick good components or build high quality audio gear by copying based on brand or visuals. You'll find the plate cap + transformer interact and the cap can be picked with trial and error (in the 0.5uF to 2.2uF range generally). MKP is a type of film cap, a Mallory or Wima would be a good choice. You want to consider packaging and layout when picking components.
Resistors can be 1/2 watt metal film.
To be blunt this is a terrible terrible terrible idea. Winding high quality audio transformers is an advanced skill that would be a huge endeavor in itself. And ttearing apart a Jensen for this would be wild. I would recommend getting a few high quality large core / high nickel core in 10:1 through 8:1 range and try them (Jensen, Sowter, AMI, Beyer, etc...). The ratio is important, but also the inductance, capacitances, etc...
The AMI T49 or T28 might be a good one to try.
The order of importance is generally considered to be capsule, transformer, tube, electronics. To 'tweak' the mic, the tone of the capsule and the interaction of the tube, plate cap, and output transformer can be iterated.
General info to whom it may concern.
There's an ongoing battle behind the scenes where many compete to make the next accurate 100% c800g clone. There are way too many things here regarding the questions posed that trigger red lights, and don't make sense unless you are making visually accurate clone. Many of the questions have been answered before. Including exactly which transformer is used, and who makes it. Language barrier makes search harder. Especially if one is using chatGPT and/or other translators.
Do you really want to do other people's R&D for free, regarding product aspects that have no other function than esthetics?
No one in their right mind, not even a opinionated beginner, would put PSU cap brand before c800 body and capsule. Not unless they think they have them figured out, not unless they lack last pieces of the puzzle.
Wouldn't you put the thing together with what you have, and eventually replace the parts along the way?
There's an ongoing battle behind the scenes where many compete to make the next accurate 100% c800g clone. There are way too many things here regarding the questions posed that trigger red lights, and don't make sense unless you are making visually accurate clone. Many of the questions have been answered before. Including exactly which transformer is used, and who makes it. Language barrier makes search harder. Especially if one is using chatGPT and/or other translators.
Do you really want to do other people's R&D for free, regarding product aspects that have no other function than esthetics?
No one in their right mind, not even a opinionated beginner, would put PSU cap brand before c800 body and capsule. Not unless they think they have them figured out, not unless they lack last pieces of the puzzle.
Wouldn't you put the thing together with what you have, and eventually replace the parts along the way?
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Most of those Chinese companies tend to tell people they can make anything, I have yet to see them match any work done by the Japanese or Germans. Your clone is going to sound like all of the other Chinese clones, like a Chinese mic, sorry.
Why not make your own design entirely, or better yet go to a studio with the mic to try one and perhaps compare it to another modern clone... You will be very disappointed in the "clones" after that. I think we have spent close to 15K on various "clones" over the years. NONE of them stayed here. After that I was OK with spending 10K or whatever on a vintage 67, or Sony 37. etc., it was an expensive lesson because NONE of the clones hold their value at all. Sorry, I love a project as much or more than most. Just my/our personal opinions based on our experience and testing, YMMV.
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