I want to make a reliable clone of a C800G microphone

[Drosselmeier]

Yes, yes, why are you trying to do this? Go to Walmart and buy it.

 

[arthurmsc]

I found these photos on a Japanese website. It’s interesting that this site says that Sony winds transformers. But in the third file that I attached, Sony says that the transformer was made in the USA.
I also found that Sony now produces not the c800g, but the c800g/9X.
One more thing: some people claim that the new Sony microphones sound worse than the old ones. Considering the differences in the new and old power supplies that I talked about earlier...
Perhaps the radio components in the microphone have also changed or something else. It would be interesting to compare the earlier version and the new one. If anyone here has both early and late c800g, please respond.
I think it was around 2006-2007 that the sound of the C800G mics really changed.

 

[Khron]

the radio components in the microphone

The what now?..

 

[vintagelove]

A couple (maybe) important details that might not be posted in this thread.


1 - Sony now uses JJ 12at7 in the PSU.

2 - The psu now runs at 6.3v.


I can also state for sure, the new mics sound fantastic.

Fwiw, if I were building a clone. The single most important factor would be to go out and buy the real capsule. It's the surest way to get the voicing correct. I say this because I also have an Innertube 87 here, which is a Neumann k67 with a tube amp with little to no roll off in the electronics.

They are certainly in the same family. However, right where the Neumann has that midrange authority, say 800 to 2k (going from memory), the Sony has a dip, and from 9k up there is more going on. They are different enough that they compliment each other well.

The Sony also has an excellent low end (which you rarely hear people talk about), and is pretty low noise. It is a very "finished" sound when you raise the fader.

 

[kingkorg]

The Sony also has an excellent low end (which you rarely hear people talk about), and is pretty low noise. It is a very "finished" sound when you raise the fader.

Visible from both Sony FR graph, C800g graph at Audio Test Kitchen, and both Townsend Labs and Slate emulation files. Neumann's k87 has roll off here. Which points to key difference in capsule design. Thanks for bringing it up, i keep forgetting.

 

[paulcheeba]

I have an older 90’s version and a more modern one in the new case and the old one in the black case with an G sticker added always had a warmer but huskier, deeper sound. More like a classic.

 

[Recording Engineer]

I wonder if age (all the things that come it) has more to do with that than anything else though.

 

[DFischer]

It might not be a good idea to help someone build a visually identical clone of a $10,000 mic. Whatever the OP's intentions are, it might not be a good idea for such a microphone to exist.

 

[arthurmsc]

It might not be a good idea to help someone build a visually identical clone of a $10,000 mic. Whatever the OP's intentions are, it might not be a good idea for such a microphone to exist.

I'm not going to make a visually identical clone. I want my clone to sound as close to the c800g as possible.

 

[arthurmsc]

This is interesting.
Can I ask you to compare the technical aspects of the new and old microphones? I'm wondering what the secret is to the difference in sound. Maybe the capacitors in microphones are different? Or something else.
There are 2 different service manuals: one from 1992, and the second from 2007. I think after 2007, Sony began making transformers themselves and changed some radio parts in the microphone. Still, the age difference is about 20 years, many radio components could have been changed, for example, this happened in the power supply.

I have an older 90’s version and a more modern one in the new case and the old one in the black case with an G sticker added always had a warmer but huskier, deeper sound. More like a classic.

 

[dmp]

Half this thread is self-appointed forum experts wagging their fingers lol

Making visually identical metalwork is the hardest part and the most crucial for mass clone appeal (and hasn't been mentioned once in this thread).
No one except a DIYer cares if the capacitors look the same.
As has been stated several times the capsule and transformer are the unique components to matching the sound and beyond the ability of almost all DIYers.

Actually figuring everything out would be a huge undertaking with originals on-hand, some discussion on a forum isn't something to through a fit over.

 

[kingkorg]

Half this thread is self-appointed forum experts wagging their fingers lol

Was this a comment to my previous reply? If so, i could be more specific. I understand why the point might have not gotten across. At least i'm sure i've never proclaimed myself to be an expert of any kind.

 

[arthurmsc]

Half this thread is self-appointed forum experts wagging their fingers lol

Making visually identical metalwork is the hardest part and the most crucial for mass clone appeal (and hasn't been mentioned once in this thread).
No one except a DIYer cares if the capacitors look the same.
As has been stated several times the capsule and transformer are the unique components to matching the sound and beyond the ability of almost all DIYers.

Actually figuring everything out would be a huge undertaking with originals on-hand, some discussion on a forum isn't something to through a fit over.

Yes, I'm going to make a clone just for my own use. I don't care about how the microphone looks, I'm only focused on the sound. I think the C800G is a legendary microphone, but I can't buy it. I don't own a large recording studio, so $20,000 is very expensive for me.
I was able to work with a Sony microphone once and I was very impressed with how the vocals sounded.
I also like DIY, I like to develop in it. I'm sad that some people think I have "weird" intentions. I just want to get as close to the sound of the c800g as possible.

 

[rock soderstrom]

Yes, I'm going to make a clone just for my own use. I don't care about how the microphone looks, I'm only focused on the sound. I think the C800G is a legendary microphone, but I can't buy it. I don't own a large recording studio, so $20,000 is very expensive for me.
I was able to work with a Sony microphone once and I was very impressed with how the vocals sounded.
I also like DIY, I like to develop in it. I'm sad that some people think I have "weird" intentions. I just want to get as close to the sound of the c800g as possible.

There's nothing wrong with that at all and it's probably also been the motivation for many other projects here on GroupDIY in the past.

I think you are focussing on the wrong things, the details regarding capacitor brands and the like are completely secondary tertiary.

I would concentrate on the important things (which have already been mentioned here) and definitely try to get an original capsule.

Then build a test mic and borrow an original to model your mic after, no matter what components you use, only the sound counts. Even if you have to change the schematic or the mic basket to achieve that sound, keep trying until you're happy with the result.

Good luck.

 

[vintagelove]

Yes, I'm going to make a clone just for my own use. I don't care about how the microphone looks, I'm only focused on the sound. I think the C800G is a legendary microphone, but I can't buy it. I don't own a large recording studio, so $20,000 is very expensive for me.
I was able to work with a Sony microphone once and I was very impressed with how the vocals sounded.
I also like DIY, I like to develop in it. I'm sad that some people think I have "weird" intentions. I just want to get as close to the sound of the c800g as possible.

Have you considered the perhaps more practical approach of getting a clone, which already has the metal work, the cooling element, etc... then put in the real capsule?

Honestly, from there I would bring it to a studio with a Sony and A/B them. Then you at least have a baseline for where you need changes. If necessary, swap the transformer and sus out any differences in the electronics.

I'm all for diy, but unless you have the metal shop, and fantastic diy skills, it's the difference between a 6 month project (that actually gets done), and a 2 year one that might never get completed.


My 2 cents...

 

[DFischer]

No one except a DIYer cares if the capacitors look the same.

Someone buying a C800 on ebay would care. Most of the DIYers here have stated that the capacitor and resistor brands don't matter. And to be clear, I'm not accusing anyone of anything. All I am saying is sharing this level of detail in public about a $10K commercial product still being manufactured might just be a bad idea.

 

[paulcheeba]

It might not be a good idea to help someone build a visually identical clone of a $10,000 mic. Whatever the OP's intentions are, it might not be a good idea for such a microphone to exist.

GAP have already made one. It costs £3k and not £10k and doesn’t sound like a Sony but it looks the same. So does the Stam, the Stam would be closer in sound if you were going to change the capsule to a Sony. I like the sound of the Stam gear I have and am waiting for a SA 800G.

 

[kingkorg]

GAP have already made one. It costs £3k and not £10k and doesn’t sound like a Sony but it looks the same. So does the Stam, the Stam would be closer in sound if you were going to change the capsule.

And a couple more on the way. Anyone seen those beautiful Alibaba u87? M149? Indistinguishable from an original to a inexperienced victim. Yup, that kind of thing.

Talking about those u87, i've already seen couple of used ones in norwegian ads, sold by reputable people having no idea what they were. Gotten them in various trades, stuff like that. Chibson kind of stuff. Keep your eyes open, and feel free to call me self proclaimed expert, paranoid... not related to you Paul.

 

[Mikael-ange]

Ok really stupid question but if you can afford a c800g, or wait 2 years for get one from sony... why don't try the sony c80?
Yes it's a fet mic, but it was made by sony for be a mini c800g sound wise.
And it cost 499$
Just saying...

 

[Whoops]

All I am saying is sharing this level of detail in public about a $10K commercial product still being manufactured might just be a bad idea.

For sure it is,
and the moderators might intervene on this thread anytime soon as the product is still being manufactured and sold by the original company and that might bring problems to this forum, which happened in the past.

Also very dangerous is that the OP is unknown in this forum, registered just 3 weeks ago, has no previous posts besides this thread and seems to have no idea whatsoever of what his doing.
Or maybe he/she knows very well his/her personal intentions with this, because even after many people explained that the brand and model of caps in the PSU were not important he/she insists and continues to try to take that information out of others.

The strange use of words and expressions like "radio parts", "radio components", "It's sad that you can't give advice", makes it even more strange.
I don't think I ever seen "radio components" written in this forum in the 16 years I have been around. Seem like a sort of "translator" is being used or something like ChatGPT

This thread and this user are highly suspicious