500 Series Neve Pre Options

[funkymonksf]

I know this topic has been discussed ad nauseam, however I’m trying to narrow down my discussion based on the following parameters:

-Accuracy to the Neve sound (does this truly depend on being true, as is possible, to the original 1290 circuit or is it a matter of components and how they’re driven?)

-Headroom and performance overall in a 500 series setting (+/-16volts vs the original +24volts). Which option is offering the correct voltage and expected headroom, assuming they’re related (I may be wrong on that, please correct if I am)

-The last thing is probably the most important… what are your experiences, opinions, thoughts on DIY Neve options in the 500 world?

I should also note that I do plan to get one of TAC’s 51x rack kits as they are too good and flexible and reasonably priced, however only one pre option allows you to utilize the 24v.

The contenders:

AML ez1073pre (seems close to original, only +/-16v, screwdriver trim sorta bothers me)

Don Classics NV73 (appears to be the most accurate w/ 24v rail option, however, it’s at least $125 more than the others)

Sound Skulptor MP573 (Only 2 stages vs the original 3 stages, uses a 2N6488 output transistor vs 2N3055, has ICs throughout which may be in the audio circuit, but to its credit it has a DI which is a plus)

…feel free to make suggestions

Thanks for your time, sincerely

 

[Slenderchap]

It is an infuriatingly annoying misconception which permeates through the 500 series world ... to which you have become a victim...... a 500 series rack is 32 volts.... not 16 volts... to run a Neve style circuit, you have to reduce the voltage down from 32v, to the required 24 volts.... so headroom is not an issue at all.

That is what happens in the ez1073 and the MP573.... (using a DC-DC converter to step 16v up to 24v is only necessary if you don't have both input and output transformers).

 

[funkymonksf]

It is an infuriatingly annoying misconception which permeates through the 500 series world ... to which you have become a victim...... a 500 series rack is 32 volts.... not 16 volts... to run a Neve style circuit, you have to reduce the voltage down from 32v, to the required 24 volts.... so headroom is not an issue at all.

That is what happens in the ez1073 and the MP573.... (using a DC-DC converter to step 16v up to 24v is only necessary if you don't have both input and output transformers).

That makes sense and I often wondered if 32 volts could be made from +/-16, and it clearly is the case. Another reason I prefer to get my info from here than let’s say gearspace.com

I apologize if I enraged you.

Thanks for the input. It makes the other options more enticing.

 

[Ricardus]

It is an infuriatingly annoying misconception which permeates through the 500 series world ... to which you have become a victim...... a 500 series rack is 32 volts.... not 16 volts... to run a Neve style circuit, you have to reduce the voltage down from 32v, to the required 24 volts.... so headroom is not an issue at all.

That is what happens in the ez1073 and the MP573.... (using a DC-DC converter to step 16v up to 24v is only necessary if you don't have both input and output transformers).

Thank you. If you didn't make this point I was going to.

 

[Ricardus]

I know this topic has been discussed ad nauseam, however I’m trying to narrow down my discussion based on the following parameters:

-Accuracy to the Neve sound (does this truly depend on being true, as is possible, to the original 1290 circuit or is it a matter of components and how they’re driven?)

-Headroom and performance overall in a 500 series setting (+/-16volts vs the original +24volts). Which option is offering the correct voltage and expected headroom, assuming they’re related (I may be wrong on that, please correct if I am)

-The last thing is probably the most important… what are your experiences, opinions, thoughts on DIY Neve options in the 500 world?

I should also note that I do plan to get one of TAC’s 51x rack kits as they are too good and flexible and reasonably priced, however only one pre option allows you to utilize the 24v.

The contenders:

AML ez1073pre (seems close to original, only +/-16v, screwdriver trim sorta bothers me)

Don Classics NV73 (appears to be the most accurate w/ 24v rail option, however, it’s at least $125 more than the others)

Sound Skulptor MP573 (Only 2 stages vs the original 3 stages, uses a 2N6488 output transistor vs 2N3055, has ICs throughout which may be in the audio circuit, but to its credit it has a DI which is a plus)

…feel free to make suggestions

Thanks for your time, sincerely

There simply is no answer to this question. Our ears suck and tests often fail to cognitive bias issues (like the real Neve winning in a test that isn't double blind).

But here is what I've heard over and over and over again. People who have tested all three next to each other maybe even with a real 1073 as part of the test say that they all fall within the vintage Neve sound, and the difference between any clone and a real 1073 is no different than the difference between two vintage 1073s.

I ended up buying the Sound Skulptor because I liked the form factor, the PCB/component layout and design, and because it has a built in DI. And I simply liked the way it looked.

 

[Spiritworks]

We have six Sound Skulptor MP573 at our studio, along with their matching EQs, which can be joined to the pre via a short cable

 

[Electrobumps]

Don Classics NV73 (appears to be the most accurate w/ 24v rail option, however, it’s at least $125 more than the others)

I have 3 of these. I have carried a blind A B C with two vintage 1073's. One of the vintage units sounded not as good. The Don classic and the other vintage unit had no detectable sonic differences.

I chose these because the circuits are no compromise and are completely faithful to the original circuit. Also, they look great.

 

[mesajoe]

I have built 16 each of AML ez1073, Sound Skulptor MP73 mk II and Don Classic NV73. They all sound Neve-ish to me. Sound Skulptor is the easiest to build and Jean-Pierre’s support is first rate. AML has the secret sauce pink-red Dubilier capacitors you can’t buy anywhere else and Colin’s support is also first rate. NV73 has styro caps and most fiddly to build, but perhaps is my favourite, the matching EQ is most faithful to an original Neve.

But I don’t think you can go far wrong with any of them.

Where are you based? Ideally you would do an ABC of all three as suggested already

 

[MHProd]

I've built 2x ez1084 and 4x ez1081. While I love the EQ of the 84s, there's a way the 81s breaks up that sounds very familiar to me and I tend to prefer it to the 84 pre (and I use a CAPI 600ohms T pad attenuator to drive the 1081 since it doesn't have an output control and a line pad at the input to mix). Nothing wrong with the 84, it sounds great but I feel like it's lacking some weight compared to an original 1073. I've used original 1081s in the past but I couldn't A/B them directly against the AML ones. As a reference, you can listen to AC/DC's "Ballbreaker" album. I believe all of it is 1081s, definitely the guitars (recording and mix). the AMLs give guitars a similar sound. Tight low end, top end remains clear but not harsh at all. Can't go wrong...

 

[Potato Cakes]

A friend of mine when he first moved to Nashville many years ago would rent these two specific serial numbered 1176's for his mix sessions because of all of the "real" 1176s, these sounded the best. The desire to have "accuracy" or sound like a "real" anything vintage should be qualified with which serial number. Component tolerances back then were much wider than any modern component that is used today, which goes to the comparison @Electrobumps made with his units.

That said I have built several AML, Don Classics, and even my own iterations and they all have that particular sound that people refer to as "Neve." Haven't build the Sound Skulptor version but I have build a couple of his other designs and they are all fantastic, so no reason to believe his MP573 would disappoint. I also use this same circuit in custom projects for clients and they are all universally very happy with the sound they get no matter what they record. Just pick the which one has the feature set you like and do that version.

A side note for the MP573 only having 2 stages: you only use the third stage when using the extreme end of the mic preamp gain which I have never used. Highest gain that I ever needed for cutting vocals and guitars is 40db, which is still the second stage. For drums I don't know if I have ever used the second stage of the preamp.

Thanks!

Paul

 

[funkymonksf]

Well I went with AML's ez1073pres. Got two. Real excited!

Now I need to figure out what to do for 500 or 51x rack or lunchbox.

 

[Tajmoben]

If it has to be 500 format I'd go with the Sound Skulptor MP573 for the highest quality to cost ratio. I use the SCA N72s as my "Neve" flavor, and love them, but I could understand the hesitation to start a Seventh Circle rack.

 

[Tajmoben]

Well I went with AML's ez1073pres. Got two. Real excited!

Now I need to figure out what to do for 500 or 51x rack or lunchbox.

Saw this after I made my last post, congrats on the AML units, I've heard nothing but good reviews!!!!

I use a Classic API 511 rack (51x & 500) at the studio and I have a small Midas lunchbox that I use at home or when I need something portable. I've heard that the Midas units can be flakey or noisy sometimes but mine hasn't given me any issues at all and the CAPI rack is bulletproof! Hope that helps!

 

[karloff70]

I've built 2x ez1084 and 4x ez1081. While I love the EQ of the 84s, there's a way the 81s breaks up that sounds very familiar to me and I tend to prefer it to the 84 pre (and I use a CAPI 600ohms T pad attenuator to drive the 1081 since it doesn't have an output control and a line pad at the input to mix). Nothing wrong with the 84, it sounds great but I feel like it's lacking some weight compared to an original 1073. I've used original 1081s in the past but I couldn't A/B them directly against the AML ones. As a reference, you can listen to AC/DC's "Ballbreaker" album. I believe all of it is 1081s, definitely the guitars (recording and mix). the AMLs give guitars a similar sound. Tight low end, top end remains clear but not harsh at all. Can't go wrong...

If I were buying 500 series Neve pres I wouId buiId the amI 1081s as weII. They have a Iarge amount of 'connotation rightness'.