Alice 828 Schematics???

[EvilGenius]

Hey guys signed up to Ted Fletcher's site but haven't had a response from him to let me use the forums over at tfpro.com  :'(
was wandering if anybody here has the schematics for the Mark I Alice 828 console, I love the unit as is but am a bit curious as to whether it can be 'improved'
if anything maybe just better noise performance. Has anyone done any mods to this? I would love to know
cheers

Zane

 

[topcat]

Used to have one of these many years ago, they were a staple product in British broadcasting in the early 80's... I've asked a colleague who still has one if he has any schematics.
They were a great little mixer, very robust and had a nice "tone"...not super clean but nice.  For many years they were the prefered Outside Broadcast and news mixer because they had lots of headroom.
We modified several with 'improved' grounding schemes (to 'improve' crosstalk and cut-off) and a better phantom supply....
If I had one now I'd change all the electrolytics and look at the op-amps.

Enjoy your 828....

 

[Bo Hansen]

Zane,

Send me a e-mail (address on my website) and I will send you the schematic.
(I not understand how to insert a image here)

--Bo

 

[EvilGenius]

Hi there Bo sent you an email, thanks for this will be a massive help

Topcat - I'm very interested in your mods to the grounding schemes? have you got any more info on this, did that help with the noise and i would assume it would also have an effect on the stereo image? lol i don't even try to use the phantom power on this everyone says it's terrible! as far as the caps go would you change the types i.e. to tantalums or replace the electrolytics as it is a console from '78 saying that the guy who had this before me left it untouched in one room for 20 years!!!!

thank you both for you're responses both very helpful
cheers
Zane

 

[EvilGenius]

Also had an odd thought i've got two marinair mic input trannys sat on my shelf i know that these desks used either sowter or belclere transformers mine has all Belcere transformers to anyones knowledge without to much reverse engineering would they at all be useable i thought i'd ask even though it seems unlikely???
cheers

 

[PRR]

> not understand how to insert a image here

1) Picture on a website, or can be on a website:

Put the picture in a folder on your website (or a host such as tinypic.com or imgur.com )

Note the URL of the picture file.

Compose your message. Where you want the image, wrap its URL in IMG tags.

 [IMG]http://web.comhem.se/~u70623528/workbench%201982.jpg[/IMG]

2) Picture on your local PC:

Compose message/reply. Preview for spilling errors.

Under that is "Attachments and other options". Expand that.
"Attach: {BROWSE}"

The Browse button lets you find the file on your PC. OK selects it for upload.

Hit "Post". (If you Preview at this point, it forgets the attachment, you'll have to select and attach it again.)

 

[Bo Hansen]

PRR,

Many thanks, you helped me with a similar problem in the beginning when Prodigy Pro forum started up many years ago.

I understand it's the same principle to upload an avatar, unlike before where you had to put the image on an external web sait, and then link to it.

--Bo

 

[EvilGenius]

Hey Bo thanks for sending the schematics just got your email earlier i've been very busy so hadn't checked glad i looked back through my emails over the past few days because i might have missed it.
I appreciate all/any information you have about the Alice 828 its always cool to have little sales adverts too (Thanks again Bo) 

A few questions i have to anyone who has modded this or is in the know:
1. What opamps would you change too what options can i consider?
2. Also changing Caps would you change to Tantalums or just recap as its an old board?
3. I've got a couple Marinair Mic input transformers, I know these units used sowter & belclere interchangeably, would i be able to somehow fit the Marinair onto there? abit of a day dream
but would be cool if i could do it (don't worry i know it wont sound like a Neve i would just like a couple channels with distinctly different flavours as this is mainly used as a flavour box if you will)
any help or further info is appreciated
thanks to you all for your replies
Cheers
Zane

 

[topcat]

Hi Zane,
I'd steer clear of tantalum caps and just recap with good quality electrolytics.
Re the opamps, I don't remenber what Alice used in the 828 but a similar vintage ABCM there were some real stinkers such as the quad 741 used in the headphone amp. 
Steve Dove's excellent 80's series in 'Studio Sound' gives an insight in to some of the Alice designs and is a great primer on console design in general.
http://84.255.203.119/Steve-Dove-Console-Design.pdf
(Steve is now 'Minister of Algorithms' for Wheatstone and still a terribly nice chap who will entertain fools like me at tradeshows with much good humour)
Reading your post stimulated waves of nostagia...My first chief engineer job at a radio station was in an Alice equiped establishment.  Everybody liked the mic amp sound.  We replaced the consoles after 10 years of 24/7 use, largely because the edge connectors on the ABCM's were becoming an issue... the rather expensive replacements didn't sound as good and were much more of a maintenance issue.  Alice had a unique style, the stations main interface with the outside world was via an Alice BFOT or 'box full of transformers' and the mic amps were modded on site to pass the IBA's (state regulator) technical test with an editing razor blade, wrapped in gaffer tape (for safety!) used as the sheilding for the transformer wires... Ah! the good old days
Enjoy your 828...there is something rather magical about real Alice gear

tc

 

[EvilGenius]

Hey Topcat really wanted to get back to you just got real busy thanks for this i was actually looking around for that Steve Dove article!  ;D
I've put up a few more pics it looks like this one uses mainly TLO71's on the channels but schematic list the NE5534 and TLO81
what opamps do you recommend in place of these?
All channels are Belclere. Does this look recently recapped to you? I know funky junk had they're hands on this i was wandering if they'd changed anything
Was really interested in your Grounding scheme mod and how it changed the character of the console was it favourable did it help with the nosie floor?
sorry for taking so long getting back i was swamped with work this week
thanks for the background you gave on this love stories like that, currently I'm just speculating the more i've used it the closer i'm coming to the feeling its great how it is.
I know alot people disagree using it in a modern context due to the noise but it's really far from been bad!
Cheers
Zane

Any clue to what the green circuit boards are on the on top right of this pic???? (first 4 channels)

 

[timshel!]

Hi Zane,

I'd take a wild guess that those 4 boards are just buffers for the direct output. These 4 outputs might have been tapped at a different point on the channel strip, one which needed extra buffering when fed to the outside world?

I've got an 828mk2 and an Alice 2008 (similar channels to the mk2 828, and a more comprehensive centre section, plus long throw P&G faders), and noticed that the 828 had a mixture of pre and post fade outputs. I asked Ted about this over at the TFPro forums, he said that a lot of the desks were modded to the customers requirements and that my desk was probably configured like this at the factory. I wonder if the mk1 channels needed the extra opamp board for a pre-fade direct out?

The only mods I've done to mine are to replace the TS output jacks with TRS jacks, wired for impedance balanced outputs.

Matt

 

[zvukofor]

Hi guys!
Just got this Alice 828 mixer in a not bad condition.
Do anyone still has a schematic for it? Need some repairment...
Pinging Bo Hansen! )

Thank you!

 

[analogguru]

Looking at the pictures, I am wondering if anybody can tell me - beside the input transformers - the big difference between this console and an El-Cheapo-Starsound-Dynamix-junk & Co:

Now I am curious to see the "secret" schematics too.

 

[Whoops]

Hi zvukofor and analogguru,

I have schematics for the 828 consoles.

There's 2 different versions MK1 and MK2 (828II)

MK1 version has a discrete Mic Preamp and uses Belclere input transformer.
I have this console and I really like the sound

MK2 uses Sowter or Belclere input transformers and the mic preamp uses an 5534.
I have used one MK2 console before and I also liked the sound

I posted the schematics in the Technical Docs section, the only schematic I have for the MKI is for the mic preamp and it consists of an hand drawning made recently by Ted Fletcher.
All the other schematics and official Alice schematics I have are for the MK2 version.

https://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=64965.0

I guess the Master section is also different between MK1 and MK2, I might trace a schematic from the my Mk1 console when I have the time.
Both consoles have a simple Peak Limiter in the Master Section that people seem to like.

Ted Fletcher forum is a nice place for info on these consoles, go there and read the 828 threads for more info:
http://tfpro.com/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=4&sid=f91ad51887c05ce55d9573fdb1c4952a

I have also the Alice Complete docs for the 828II mk2 but the pdf was to big to post on the tech docs section, send me a pm and I will email you the doc.

First thing you should do is to verify which version you have

 

[zvukofor]

Thank you very much for schemos!
It seems that i have mkII version.

So far 2 channels works fine, work in progress...someone soldered XLR inputs to line in on boards, so have to do some soldering.

 

[guntherbuffalo]

I am on a wild goose chase for an Alice 828, or even an Alice ad62 if available.

Anyone looking to part with one for not too crazy a price?

 

[Whoops]

I love my 828, I will not sell mine, but probably I will buy another one

 

[Whoops]

Looking at the pictures, I am wondering if anybody can tell me - beside the input transformers - the big difference between this console and an El-Cheapo-Starsound-Dynamix-junk & Co:

Now I am curious to see the "secret" schematics too.

Hi analogguru, it seems somehow I've missed your post on the Starsound Dynamix.
I really don't know if there's any connection with Alice, or even if the circuits are similar but you're completely right the insides look really really similar.
I don't know it Alice was copied, or if both companies have any connections at all.

If anyone has any schematic on that Starsound Dynamix mixer would love to check it out

thanks

 

[ohm]

can anyone share the Mk1 schematics? I'm specifically interested in the limiter, but also interested to see how the overall circuit worked. Thanks