Amazing CBS tube console

[ruffrecords]

A friend just turned me on to this amazing console on eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Custom-Vintage-Tube-Recording-Console-Columbia-Records-10x3-all-valve-RARE-/261223232567?pt=US_Live_Studio_Mixers&hash=item3cd21e3437

Anyone know who Peter Jackson might be?

Cheers

Ian

 

[pucho812]

Anyone know who Peter Jackson might be?

Cheers

Ian

didn't he direct the lord of the rings trilogy amoung other movies ;D

 

[emrr]

I think he's dreaming on the price, considering the lay of the land.  All those little Triad A series transformers don't give me a warm fuzzy feeling at all, only the Peerless on the line amps.  Very interesting piece though.  Who wants to buy an RCA BC-2B from me, while we're at it? 

 

[thermionic]

Does anyone know about those compressors? Judging from the era, they're probably vari-mu, right? In which case, unless anyone knows better, that console may well contain a lesser-documented CBS vari-mu.

BTW - I'm familiar with and have owned later CBS dynamic processors, but even though the rIIz uses a 6386, it's not what you could call a 'vari-mu limiter' or 'compressor' (although it's relatively simple to modify to be as such).

 

[emrr]

The last two pics?  Something unrelated he's looking for, not part of the auction, ebay violation.  Bank wire preferred, ebay violation.  Keyword spamming, ebay violation.    Welcome to the party.   

 

[ruffrecords]

Does anyone know about those compressors? Judging from the era, they're probably vari-mu, right? In which case, unless anyone knows better, that console may well contain a lesser-documented CBS vari-mu.

Which compressors are those? I did not see any.

Cheers

Ian

 

[thermionic]

Doh! What Doug said. A bizarre anomaly in the listing.

What about the UA power supply? If it's supplied as SOA, then how are you going to know if it has all the right specs?

Looks to me like you might be smelling a rat here, Doug. Am I to take it you're not bidding? 

 

[emrr]

I already have a pile of commercially made tube consoles.  No thanks.  I don't smell a rat so much as note all the non-kosher listing anomalies.  It's not even a Columbia or CBS console, it was apparently made for an independent producer who sold program to CBS TV. 

For contrast, consoles like this usually sell lower than individual module value, and that's when the modules are a known quantity....on any level of known.  Every now and then one will sell equal to module value, very rare to sell higher due to it being a complete package.  You never know.  Last week a dozen Daven 600 ohm T's sold for $3K.  $250 apiece, pretty much the top of the scale.  Sell a tube console with a dozen of them, and a dozen amps, working, you might be lucky to get so much.  You might get $1500. 

 

[mitsos]

I already have a pile of commercially made tube consoles.  No thanks.  I don't smell a rat so much as note all the non-kosher listing anomalies.  It's not even a Columbia or CBS console, it was apparently made for an independent producer who sold program to CBS TV. 

For contrast, consoles like this usually sell lower than individual module value, and that's when the modules are a known quantity....on any level of known.  Every now and then one will sell equal to module value, very rare to sell higher due to it being a complete package.  You never know.  Last week a dozen Daven 600 ohm T's sold for $3K.  $250 apiece, pretty much the top of the scale.  Sell a tube console with a dozen of them, and a dozen amps, working, you might be lucky to get so much.  You might get $1500.

I love this old stuff. I've never owned or used any console of that age (showing my age?), but 1500 seems like a bargain considering the price-gouging on vintage stuff (HS56's going for $200 a piece?). Your comment got me interested, can you show some pics of your collection please?
here's something more affordable (still has 5 days to go, wonder what it'll sell for). Would love to have it:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1950s-RCA-BC3B-All-Tube-Consolette-Mixer-and-Multiple-Mic-Pre-Amplifier-/271217479921?pt=US_Live_Studio_Mixers&hash=item3f25d250f1

 

[emrr]

People won't pay much for a whole console because of the size and the shipping headaches, followed by the unknown of acquiring so much of something so unheard, and usually untested.    You can still spend your time going to HAMfests and occasionally walk away with a tube console for $200-400.  The trick is having the hand truck and stamina to get it out of there.  You'll probably spend hundreds or thousands more in travel costs and time to find that deal, but they are out there.  You rarely see whole consoles available because the financials always work best to part them out.  A Collins 212A on a very good day might bring $2K5-$3K, many sell down around $1K5, then the dealers part them out for something closer to $7K.  Everyone wants the dream of a single vintage tube preamp module sitting on their shelf, not a lot of space, palatable cost, easy to ignore and dream about occasionally.  Few want to bite into something weighing 200 lbs that eats a major portion of a room, and doesn't seem terribly practical. 

I don't have a lot of pics onhand, but here's one.  Collins 12H from somewhere 1939-41.  I think they started making these in '36, making it among the first two consoles having all electronics within rather than in a rack.  If it were '37 or earlier it'd have a different logo, '38 or earlier a VI meter of different mounting dimension.    4 single tube mic pre, 1 Hi-Z transcription pre, program amp, monitor amp.  Outboard PSU; no fuse anywhere!  No, I haven't got this one through the restoration part yet. 

 

[Kingston]

I don't have a lot of pics onhand, but here's one.  Collins 12H from somewhere 1939-41.  I think they started making these in '36, making it among the first two consoles having all electronics within rather than in a rack.  If it were '37 or earlier it'd have a different logo, '38 or earlier a VI meter of different mounting dimension.    4 single tube mic pre, 1 Hi-Z transcription pre, program amp, monitor amp.  Outboard PSU; no fuse anywhere!  No, I haven't got this one through the restoration part yet.

Dang you are such a lucky bastard. I saw this pic before, an inspiration. Looking forwards to the end result.

 

[mitsos]

That's beautiful. You ever want to get rid of that for 1500 you let me know!   

 

[emrr]

Dang you are such a lucky bastard. I saw this pic before, an inspiration. Looking forwards to the end result.

It's as simple as being any sort of junkie, search all the time, you will find this stuff.  I know of a Gates SA-40 in mint condition that was sold for $750 just last year.  I saw it, looked like it had hardly ever been powered up.  No heat marks anywhere, didn't look like anyone had smoked around it.  Unbelievable.  I've seen RCA 76 consoles that looked almost new sell on ebay near $1000 several times. 

If you can't pick it up, the $400+ crate and freight bill adds a lot of unknowns and stress. Unless it's changed recently, most overseas freight delivery I've checked into won't insure old electronics for more than $500 either, so you gotta be able to risk the loss.  You add paypal's delivery/tracking/insurance requirements to the mix, it keeps this stuff off the open market. 

 

[emrr]

Altec 250T3.  Really a SS update of the 250SU console using the same mounting trays, so the tube modules will go in it too.  Wire both PSU types, swap tube/SS if you want. 

Collins 212A

custom Collins passive mixer

Gates SA-40, desk mount version

RCA BC-2B

 

[mitsos]

I'm very happy someone actually has these things in one piece, but you need to open your place to visitors!

what's that behind the altec? And next to the RCA?

 

[emrr]

The Altec pic was taken by the guy I got it from at his place, it's another he modified heavily. 

I had the BC-2B next to a BC-3 for frame comparison.  They used exactly the same basic frame for both types.  The BC-3 went away, you can only keep so many, you probably shouldn't keep as many as I have. 

 

[emrr]

Anyone know who Peter Jackson might be?

So far I haven't come up with anything on this guy.  It'd be cool to put some background with this story. 

May be sort of like those first tube Neve consoles, which I've heard were put together by a guy Rupert hired as a custom job.  I'm not aware of any other info on that builder. 

The preamp gain here looks at a glance somewhat unmanageable with todays practices.  I'm seeing input transformer and two stages of 6072 before the first chance of attenuation.  It really depends on what that feedback loop is doing, I can't quite make out the values there. 

 

[ruffrecords]

To me the feedback network looks like 100k and 2.8k making the gain about 30dB per stage; with 20dB gain from the input transformer strapped for 600 ohm input gives a max gain of 80dB.

Cheers

Ian

 

[mitsos]

For anyone interested, the RCA BC3 on ebay (link in reply#8) sold for $5100.  With free standard shipping  ;D

 

[emrr]

That's a new world record for that console, though it probably helped a lot that it was listed as fully functional.  Most have just come out of a barn or basement.