AMS Neve 1073 Sweeps

[Aaronrash]

I know Geoff posts everywhere about the -4dB drop with the EQ engaged but I have never experienced this with my AMS units or my build or the EZ1073 for that matter. Avedis recommends leaving the 47pF intact. The reason they are there is corrective for the miller capacitance inside the transistor. It's a entire topic for another day but long story short. I leave them in place, respectfully to Geoff. You can if you'd like remove them. It won't make much of a difference either way.

I built my PSU around a LM317 lots of filtering... Pretty basic stuff. The one inside the VK Rack is basically the same with some slight differences. I hear the AMS rack version are switch mode, yucky! Judging from the DPA pics, it appears to be switch mode as well.

I have a session this Wednesday at MusicWorld here in houston. Beyonce's dads place. I will bring my units and do better test in a proper treated room. It a correctly treated room, Neve's sound way better and you can hear what they're doing a little easier. The EZ1073 unit's are going back on eBay soon.

 

[Aaronrash]

I'm also wondering about the eq. When the eq is officially 'out'...does the signal still run though the eq circuitry?
But this wouldn't explain Aaron's first build that had the eq...but still lacked the 'finish' on the top end.

With the EQ disengaged the signal doesn't run through the additional B284 OpAmps. The EQ is completely out of circuit.

 

[Aaronrash]

Here's a little video to show the EQL.

1084 is in one channel and my build is in the other. I overload the converters a couple times on accident. The EQ's do get loud!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYWbQwX_Lsk&feature=youtu.be

 

[AErige]

I'm also wondering about the eq. When the eq is officially 'out'...does the signal still run though the eq circuitry?
But this wouldn't explain Aaron's first build that had the eq...but still lacked the 'finish' on the top end.

With the EQ disengaged the signal doesn't run through the additional B284 OpAmps. The EQ is completely out of circuit.
[/quote]

I beg to differ aaron....when eq is out, you're only bypassing the eq return but eq send is still in circuit thus incoming signal goes to b284 DAO. for info : to avoid clicks Neve put 22u tantal cap with the switch but on previous versions there weren't any caps there but maybe customers could have thought something was wrong.

60dB or 60dB on my AMS Neve and my build are actually lower than 60dB. Either way, the gain
staging sounds very different.

70 dB position for ez1073 = 75dB for neve so a difference of 5dB  if you did your sample using the same position on both your preamps.

 

[Aaronrash]

Ahh I miss-read that. For some reason I thought he asked if the bypassed EQ still gets into the circuit.

Yeah the EQ is always receiving signal. The switch switches between the the B283 2nd stage output via pin P or the output of the highpass filter.

So since I recorded the signal at 60dB on both units I guess in order to match the same gain the AMS and my version are doing I would need to set it to 55dB on the EZ1073 while leaving my units on 60dB

Cool stuff.

 

[AErige]

Here's a little video to show the EQL.

1084 is in one channel and my build is in the other. I overload the converters a couple times on accident. The EQ's do get loud!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYWbQwX_Lsk&feature=youtu.be

nice vid thx  8)

 

[Aaronrash]

It's disorienting trying to do identical EQ with a CV and a CH module lol

 

[AErige]

Any acoustic instrument's extreme top end will be better represented. Acoustic guitar, Cymbals, Vocals, etc. I heard a clip the other day on yougube, that was a comparison on acoustic guitar between a vintech and a vintage 1073...the shimmer was quite noticeable and gave a pleasing, finished quality to the sound. I wasn't the only one that could hear it either.
Have a listen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUqsQrr-RTI

funny on that link I found one of aaron's comment from 2 years ago and it seems you were already well aware of the difference between clones and vintage regarding that top end (if B is the vintage....did you ask the results btw?)

Also, I'm using the green can transformers in my builds, I dont really think that has anything
to do with it but that is a notable difference between the EZ and my build

Despite what I wrote earlier about what ams says here regarding green cans being the same as the blue ones minus the color http://ams-neve.com/news-and-events/getting-wound-about-neve-transformers,
I'm still wondering why BAE modules don't have the ams sheen even though they are wired the same way...are we really sure it's due to the 20awg wiring and not coming from a different mic tranny for instance (maybe ams is using the one with a reverse winding  ?) since bae only got access to stock carnhill......

 

[desol]

Ahh I miss-read that. For some reason I thought he asked if the bypassed EQ still gets into the circuit.

That is what I was asking. AErige just elaborated on it a little more.

Any acoustic instrument's extreme top end will be better represented. Acoustic guitar, Cymbals, Vocals, etc. I heard a clip the other day on yougube, that was a comparison on acoustic guitar between a vintech and a vintage 1073...the shimmer was quite noticeable and gave a pleasing, finished quality to the sound. I wasn't the only one that could hear it either.
Have a listen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUqsQrr-RTI

funny on that link I found one of aaron's comment from 2 years ago and it seems you were already well aware of the difference between clones and vintage regarding that top end (if B is the vintage....did you ask the results btw?)

Results were that B was the Neve.

 

[TheJames]

I've been listening to the three example files provided earlier.

I initially set out to match the ez1073 to the build track with some EQ.  I don't think it's possible.

In addition to the HF sheen, there's a little more "meat" and I swear there's more "punch" and "articulation" as well.

Anyone else hearing that?

 

[TheJames]

Tragically....Some things just can't be un-heard.

So those three examples above were soley the mic-pre?  Seems like there was a misunderstanding in the gain staging between the EZ unit and the other two?  If so, would you mind re-cutting a similar example with matched gain?

In your experience, would these differences show up when running a pre-recorded track through the mic-pre?

I'd love to perform a comparison between my Neve-a-bes and the AMS/home-etch.

 

[desol]

I've been listening to the three example files provided earlier.

I initially set out to match the ez1073 to the build track with some EQ.  I don't think it's possible.

In addition to the HF sheen, there's a little more "meat" and I swear there's more "punch" and "articulation" as well.

Anyone else hearing that?

That's what I also con notated towards in my description of it.

 

[Aaronrash]

Oh yeah I've always been aware of this. 2 years ago my studio was running and at the time I owned several AMS 1084 modules. Later my studio shut down and after doing tons of reading and on a budget of course, I figured EZ1073 would be my best bet at getting that sound back. Especially after reading the TapeOp reviews on it I was sold.... Plus everyone on Gearslutz talks about how amazing they are so I figured that west the best option. I knew nothing about DIY and I couldn't even read a schematic. This was last July... so not even a year ago.

There were some things I didn't like so I went into it with the idea of doing all original components. I saw the PCB mount transformer and knew I had to get the ones AMS was using. For instance, I later learned if you drill holes in a transformer you are taking iron away so you have to wind it more to compensate and you end up with a funky sounding transformer. I spent crazy money on components and they took forever to source. All the polystyrene used was vintage. All the caps were BC. I used lots of Mullards etc... and the AMS parts were anything but cheap.

I finally got the builds done and just didn't like them from the get go, as much as I wanted to I just knew the sound was off compared to what I was used to. Plus I had all my old vocal takes in my computer still from when I had my 1084 modules and several sessions with vintage 1073 and 1066 units and it made me depressed that I had just spent all that money and time on the EZ units and they didn't sound like I thought they would.

That's when I learned you can't trust what people say on the internet. If you want anything done right you have to do it yourself and compare for yourself and don't listen to anyone's opinions except for your own. I've worked with Neve stuff forever, I know what sounds right.

I ended up buying another AMS 1084 and 1073, it cost me a fortune and I spent money I don't have so what does that tell you!

 

[Aaronrash]

Oh yeah I tried EQ'ing the EZ trust me I tried doing that for 6 months everyday. It never worked. There's something else going on with the AMS and my build that are doing something special.

Yeah more articulation for sure. They also compress in such a musical way ever so slightly, you can hear it

 

[Aaronrash]

Has anyone here attempted to build a 2254 yet? I think that will be my next project

 

[desol]

Not exactly a 2254, but looks nice nonetheless: http://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=32605.0

I'm doing a set of the PYE's.  ;D

 

[Aaronrash]

AMS Neve 1084 Mic Sweep

 

[Aaronrash]

Aaron Rash 1073 Mic Sweep

 

[Aaronrash]

AMS Neve 1073 Mic Sweep

 

[Aaronrash]

EZ1073 Mic Sweep