AMS Neve 1073 Sweeps

[Aaronrash]

Notice the large ripple bump on the bottom of the EZ1073, It's identical to AE Ridge EZ1073 sweeps on page 2 of this thread, witch leaves me to believe all EZ1073 units graph like this... Both of mine do

Then look at my AMS modules with the same transformers my EZ has. They graph totally different witch leaves me to believe it MUST be something with the PCB.

Look at my hand built and wired 1073. I made my tracks thicker than my AMS modules and used slightly thicker wire. The bottom ripple is almost non existent.

Interesting

 

[ding]

Those are very telling sweeps. Your ez seems to have a very hyped low end which would require you to compensate in level essentially lowering the rest of the frequencies. Just a question, did you ever try to build the ez the way it came from Colin without any mods? Just wondering if the vanilla ez is compensating for this with the component selection.

 

[Aaronrash]

Well these are fractions of a dB here so I don't think its really conclusive for why they sound so different but it's interesting indeed. Something is behaving differently.

To answer your questions, yes I did build the EZ1073 units stock at first and then started upgrading components as parts came in. Lastly was the AMS transformers. Honestly, through the entire process, swapping the components didn't make an audible difference and they measured the same throughout the entire process. Adding the AMS transformers did change the low end graph a teeny tiny bit but was barley a difference to even make note of.

Again, I think components selection matters allot less than people think! Me and AE Ridge EZ1073 builds are different components and different units and they measure exactly the same.

 

[ding]

In the ez it looks like about .5db between the peak and when it settles at 100hz. That's pretty significant to my ears. When my mastering engender works on my projects he is making .5db moves or less and the difference is huge.

 

[desol]

You can see the significant difference on the top-end too on the EZ, which of course we can hear. Compare the killer response of the 1084......yikes.  ???

The question is....why? That kind of difference surely must have something to do with more than layout?

 

[ding]

I don't really see that much on the high end. I think the low end is just drowning out the highs. I still can't wait to finish and use my ez1073. I think I will enjoy the hell out of it. It is very educational to know this info though. I think a c12 will probably pair well with the ez1073. Aaron, how did you ever get those knobs installed on your ez1073? I would not mind doing the same. I know some people where having problems fitting those knobs on the 15mm shaft from Colin.

 

[Aaronrash]

I don't really see that much on the high end. I think the low end is just drowning out the highs. I still can't wait to finish and use my ez1073. I think I will enjoy the hell out of it. It is very educational to know this info though. I think a c12 will probably pair well with the ez1073. Aaron, how did you ever get those knobs installed on your ez1073? I would not mind doing the same. I know some people where having problems fitting those knobs on the 15mm shaft from Colin.

It was a nightmare. I had to drill each knob. Knowing how to better do things, this time around I would have just bought my own pots with 3.18mm shafts instead of the ones Colin sends. That's what I did with the repair builds for my EZ1073's and they work so much nicer and feel better too. I used bourns pots and just wired them on. Now the shafts are long enough and the knobs fit properly.

Just use a dremel tool to remove excess shaft.

 

[ding]

One more question. What voltage tantalum are those. The original BOM has 63v electolitics but I could not find tants over 50v.

 

[Aaronrash]

63V is way too high and the electrolytic won't charge properly. (Geoff says this on his site)

For all the first stage coupling caps you are going to want 10uF/25V tant's, for the other coupling caps you will want 22uF/16V

 

[desol]

I don't really see that much on the high end. I think the low end is just drowning out the highs. I still can't wait to finish and use my ez1073. I think I will enjoy the hell out of it. It is very educational to know this info though. I think a c12 will probably pair well with the ez1073. Aaron, how did you ever get those knobs installed on your ez1073? I would not mind doing the same. I know some people where having problems fitting those knobs on the 15mm shaft from Colin.

Yeah...I didn't read the scale quite right on the left. I have lots to learn about measuring...

 

[volker]

63V is way too high and the electrolytic won't charge properly. (Geoff says this on his site)

For all the first stage coupling caps you are going to want 10uF/25V tant's, for the other coupling caps you will want 22uF/16V

The voltage rating doesn't make a difference as long as it is high enough. I guess (hope...) you only misunderstood Mr. Tanner. "Won't charge properly" is simply wrong.

 

[Aaronrash]

Here's what Geoff said

"As for other capacitors, move to the next value up like you indicate, 20uF = 22uF, but don't be tempted to raise the voltage rating excessively... keep it reasonably close to the value of the voltages present. EG To de-couple the 24v, 35v is the most you will need... 25v would work. If you used, for instance, a 100v capacitor in a 12v environment it would not correctly bias the electrolyte and you would not gain any reliability advantages over using a 16 volt capacitor in that location.

These tips apply to aluminium electrolytics and tantalum capacitors... not the non-polarised types used in the EQ sections...

Geoff"

I have had several other techs and designers tell me the same thing on several occasions... Voltage maters with polarized capacitors.

You can find this info on the site in the "Neve Secrets forum" it's the thread titled "recapping vintage modules"

 

[Aaronrash]

Ok so I figured out, when measuring the units. My build was set to "LO" for the input impedance so that's why my unit has that response. I measured my 1084 in "LO" mode also and it does the same exact thing.

 

[Ilya]

EZ sweep looks very suspicious...

 

[ding]

It would be interesting to sweep a stock/vanilla ez1073 as I have been reading not such great things about tants. I know Aaron's test is more about pcb vs wire when all the components are matched and that he postulates that components are minor as compared to build. I also think that the ez sweep looked a little wonky but I am not here to question Aaron's testing methods. I will just have to build this myself and judge wether this pre will work for my particular needs just as Aaron has done. I will probably stick with electrolytics just to see if I dig it. I will replace the some film for styrene. This is DIY after all. 

 

[Aaronrash]

If I were you, after what I have learned...

I would keep the WIMA films, they are fine and using polystrene won't give you any advantage. In fact my 2012 AMS 1073 module has several WIMA's in them since sourcing polystyrene is getting harder. However mouser stocks them.

Tantalums are also very important for the Neve sound. If you want to deviate that's totally cool but just remeber Tant's are important if your trying to clone. They don't sound bad at all.

Either way, have fun. Experiment and see what works best for you. DIY is allot of fun!

 

[spase]

can you share the selfetching with us? ;D

 

[Ilya]

can you share the selfetching with us? ;D

Aaron shared enough valuable info. This is too much to ask imo.
You can always make your own PCBs from the pictures available on the net. It takes about 2 days but it can be done. I know.

 

[ding]

can you share the selfetching with us? ;D

Aaron shared enough valuable info. This is too much to ask imo.
You can always make your own PCBs from the pictures available on the net. It takes about 2 days but it can be done. I know.

While I completely understand if Aaron doesn't share the etch files, I don't think this is too much to ask. People have shared more than this on this forum. spase asked politely and yes while you can etch files from pictures on the internet all of those are really scketchy and have lots of errors. I still believe it is Aaron's prerogative whether he shares or not and that is fine by me but there is no crime in asking. 

 

[spase]

i think theres a lot of interest for them(without errors).