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As in many things, there is no clear demarkation line between "crazy" and "not crazy". And it's a distraction. It's obvious that in terms of personality and MO, what motivates Trump, who and/or what he cares for, what his boundaries are as well as his cognitive style and abilities in terms of things like attention span, understanding of complex issues etc. he absolutely is not a good pick as leader for a democracy.

The demarkation line between "criminal" and "not criminal" is an easier one to define, and it seems Trump has crossed it many, many times.

Also, the whole "outsider" idea and how it is presented is fascinating in its absurdity to me. How could a rich kid playboy who's main occupation was crooked real estate tycoon and who mingled with the elite from a very young age ever fit this definition?

On the other hand, Bill Clinton or Barack Obama, who both have rather humble backgrounds, succeeded in academia purely on merit despite finding a deck generally stacked against them and only then entered politics actually do fit it.

Ultimately, a lot of people would be well served to engage in some serious soul-searching if Trump really is the kind of person they should be following...
 
living sounds said:
Ultimately, a lot of people would be well served to engage in some serious soul-searching if Trump really is the kind of person they should be following...
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Indeed. I have been shocked and amused to see the lengths conservatives will go to to defend some rather obvious wrongdoing. Don't expect a whole lot of GOP soul-searching actually to occur--I have seen little evidence that most modern conservatives are interested in (or even capable of) that sort of thing.
 
fundamental flaw in the logic is the assumption of a soul, or rather a soul as you imagine it
 
Matador said:
#thatsthejoke

Sorry if my sarcasm wasn't sarcastic enough. :D
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All of us fully understand that when we say "Biden" or "Biden/Harris" we mean their administration. It is obvious Joe isn't making any decisions at all (while his supporters deny his obvious mental decline which was apparent during the 2020 campaign). POTUS is responsible for the executive branch which is huge and which is responsible for many of the policies and decisions that have wrought so much damage over the past 19 months.

As for Trump, his administration certainly did better until the pandemic where the career bureaucrats and Dem governors took it upon themselves to destroy the best economy we've seen here in four or five decades. He also exposed the press and permanent bureaucracy for what they are--dangerous ideologues.
 
shabtek said:
fundamental flaw in the logic is the assumption of a soul, or rather a soul as you imagine it
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It's just a figure of speech. Objectively there is very little to assume it does exist and good theoretical reasons why so many people nevertheless (want to) believe in it.
 
AnalogPackrat said:
All of us fully understand that when we say "Biden" or "Biden/Harris" we mean their administration. It is obvious Joe isn't making any decisions at all (while his supporters deny his obvious mental decline which was apparent during the 2020 campaign). POTUS is responsible for the executive branch which is huge and which is responsible for many of the policies and decisions that have wrought so much damage over the past 19 months.

As for Trump, his administration certainly did better until the pandemic where the career bureaucrats and Dem governors took it upon themselves to destroy the best economy we've seen here in four or five decades. He also exposed the press and permanent bureaucracy for what they are--dangerous ideologues.
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Where are you getting this stuff from? It cannot be objective reality...
 
Think about it that way: The person you hurt first and foremost by relying on (dis)information from an ideologically charged echochamber is yourself, because it does and will caus you to make poor decisions. When in the next step you again blame others for the results it becomes a vicious circle. This pattern has been playing itself out on the right in the US for many decades now...
 
living sounds said:
Where are you getting this stuff from? It cannot be objective reality...
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I witnessed it up close and firsthand in some instances. I lived in CA during the Trump administration and the Covid lockdown. I saw what crazy really means. You, on the other hand, were not here to experience any of it, yet you see yourself as some kind of objective observer from on high.
 
living sounds said:
Think about it that way: The person you hurt first and foremost by relying on (dis)information from an ideologically charged echochamber is yourself, because it does and will caus you to make poor decisions. When in the next step you again blame others for the results it becomes a vicious circle. This pattern has been playing itself out on the right in the US for many decades now...
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I lived in the increasingly left-leaning echo chamber of Silicon Valley for 27.5 years and a year and a half in a smaller CA city. While there are twists and spin on both sides, the blatant bias, sins of omission, double-standards, and outright lies are far more frequently seen in the current left than the right.

You don't know me, my background, my experiences, or my politics other than what I've shared here. From what I gather you've never lived in the US. Yet you preach (and project) and echo the same BS I've been hearing for years. I used to lend it some credence, but have opened my mind and seen it for what it mostly is. IMO you should worry about your own problems there in Germany and the EU rather than spreading your misunderstanding of the US here.

276120713_1659912834351951_4667243849423883757_n.jpg
 
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rob_gould said:
When you say 'the current left and right' are you talking about politicians, the media or the public?
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Sadly main stream media has given up any pretense of objectivity, actively rooting for the left. Fox news is routinely accused of supporting the right, and some of the opinion talent do lean right. FOX news reporting is relatively objective, and is rewarded with better ratings because of that.

JR
 
rob_gould said:
When you say 'the current left and right' are you talking about politicians, the media or the public?
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Primarily the politicians and the media, but also those citizens who believe everything Gavin Newsom, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Cory Booker, the Obamas, or some Hollywood loon says.

There are far more "true believers" on the left than on the right, IMO. I know many conservatives who don't like W Bush or don't like Trump, but none of my Democrat friends and family have anything bad to say about the Clintons, the Obamas, or the Bidens.
 
JohnRoberts said:
Sadly main stream media has given up any pretense of objectivity, actively rooting for the left. Fox news is routinely accused of supporting the right, and some of the opinion talent do lean right. FOX news reporting is relatively objective, and is rewarded with better ratings because of that.

JR
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An aside : the BBC is routintely pilloried by lefties in the UK for giving too much airtime to right wing nutjobs. Conversely, the right believe that the BBC is inherently biased against them because of the number of liberals working there. There was an interesting interview with an (ex?) Director General of the BBC a couple of years ago (the top bod) who observed, rather wryly, that if both sides are accusing you of bias against them, the chances are you're getting things pretty much in the middle.

For the record, I have NEVER heard anyone, left or right, say that Fox is objective. Unless you mean their news reporting only, and not their commentary.

I assume you saw this titbit last week? I'd call that downright incendiary.

Kilmead.PNG
 
AnalogPackrat said:
Primarily the politicians and the media, but also those citizens who believe everything Gavin Newsom, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Cory Booker, the Obamas, or some Hollywood loon says.

There are far more "true believers" on the left than on the right, IMO. I know many conservatives who don't like W Bush or don't like Trump, but none of my Democrat friends and family have anything bad to say about the Clintons, the Obamas, or the Bidens.
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Yeah, I'm always surprised when people are suprised when politicians lie. There are some honest ones (in the UK, and here in NL - the two countries I can speak about with some degree of knowledge) but they're a minority.

That's not a partisan issue though. It's to do with political ambition rather than political allegiance wouldn't you say?
 
rob_gould said:
Yeah, I'm always surprised when people are suprised when politicians lie.
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My problem is with the ones who don't see the obvious lie.

rob_gould said:
There are some honest ones (in the UK, and here in NL - the two countries I can speak about with some degree of knowledge) but they're a minority.
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We have some here as well.

rob_gould said:
That's not a partisan issue though. It's to do with political ambition rather than political allegiance wouldn't you say?
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In one party here, if you are politically ambitious you must also demonstrate unyielding allegiance even when that means parroting a false narrative. That party is not the GOP nor is it the Libertarian or Green party.
 
What's the false narrative the Dems are peddling? Genuine question... Or you mean in general rather than any specific one.

Regardless, it seems to me that's not just a Democrat thing. There are plenty of Rep headbangers who're still screeching the stolen election line.

Pushing the party line is part of the deal. I'm not condoning it - I think it shows a gross lack of integrity. But it happens on all sides.

In the UK, it's common for ex-politicians and ex-police chiefs to admit that the war on drugs is an abject failure. That it's widely known at all levels in politics and law enforcement that the *only* way that drug use can be tackled is to decriminalise users and treat addiction as a medical issue. But no one will admit this when they're in power - when they could actually effect some change - because they know how such a statement would go down with the voting public.
 
JohnRoberts said:
Sadly main stream media has given up any pretense of objectivity, actively rooting for the left. Fox news is routinely accused of supporting the right, and some of the opinion talent do lean right. FOX news reporting is relatively objective, and is rewarded with better ratings because of that.

JR
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The biggest problem with Fox News is that there are people who confuse their evening op-Ed shows as fox reporting news. While they do that between shows for some reason people think the op-Ed shows are their news reporting. To be fair they probably think that about the other nets works as well thinking don lemon’s commentary is news.
 
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