Avid at it again

[pucho812]

The latest in pro tools is elimination perpetual ownership of the pro tools software license in favor of subscription based models.
While the idea has worked well with other companies like adobe and altium. The daw is something I do not regularly update unless there is some feature I have to have. Kind of screws things a bit.
Let’s see how this plays out

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Curse of the MBAs..."software as a service"

 

[fazer]

ya I just saw the new announcements of 3 versions and none of them are perpetually. Good old avid. I have studio one also. but protools are where my chops are. Used PT since 91 or 92. Retired now so 30 years is a good run. I didn’t even bother to check the prices. I heard they were going to do this back last November. Guess it just took a little longer. I quit using their plugs for a while to not be locked in.
I was thinking of getting an Apple studio mini. It’s there new version of an affordable pro machine $2000. But. Seriously My life is so much simpler since getting out of post production.
Like John Lennon sang, I just had to let go”. I guess we’ll see

 

[pucho812]

well the info seems to be mixed but if you have a perpetual license and renew it, it still works as before I think. I have been told that so I am not certain. While I get it it does just add the the stress level of keeping a facility running. just one more thing to constantly check on.

 

[boji]

subscription based models.

Yeah this is a super trendy in IT as well. I've had more than one company sell me licenses that had language in the contract that implied or used the word "perennial" in the agreement, only to rescind the agreement a few years later by asking folks to install an update.

Apparently buried in the EULA of that update is a sneaky change to the terms of contract. The latest one to stick it to us is Teamviewer (remote access).

 

[Brian Roth]

Decades ago (early 1990's) , Avid was in the business of selling high end NLE (Non Linear Editing) video editing systems. The facility I worked for was paying something like $50K-$100K per year for "support" of three editing systems. On top of that, at least once or twice, Avid stopped support for the hardware we already owned. So, dump out five or six figures for new hardware purchases from Avid (you HAD to use only Avid-sold hardware)....that was beyond the annual "support".

I developed a big hatred of Avid back then. On top of that, a few years later Avid bought Digidesign. The audio department used ProFools and got caught up in that treadmill as well.

I've detested Avid for decades.

Bri

 

[groselicain]

If I work in town, it's a given that all the rooms will be PT setups, but I've kept my promise to never give Avid a dime in my own room. Paying for over-the-phone support, the AAX debacle, and the elitism are just a handful of the turn-offs that will keep me away. The subscription thing is not a surprise, either. I'm surprised they're this late to adopt it. Then again, it also seems a bit strange as long as they're still trying to maintain a foot in the hardware world with the HDX stuff—right?

 

[PermO]

95' I took a 18 month course in audio production (SAE), 6 months of that were focussed on digital audio.
The teacher for that period was a guy from digidesign and he introduced us to protools 1.
He was a very nice guy but I did not like the fact that they where pushing their junk on us during a paid for education, it felt like a marketing ploy.
The main reason for my aggitation was that the sound sucked !

Anybody worked on protools 1 ?

I told him there was something inherently wrong with the software as everything sounded weird and phasey in the top end, but no I was wrong, it was just me who was not used to digital sound yet.

Yeah right.

We now know how that turned out... lol, I was right !

So F*** protools forever !

 

[SIXTYNINER]

Some friend is still happy with Pro Tools 5 TDM on Mac Os 9 ,
upgraded to used Pci cards 24 bit for very low price (as considered technically obsolete) ,
after the apparently not repairable PSU death of nubus Mac Quadra series with nubus expansion chassis ...

kept the i-o interfaces partially recycled on the Pci TDM ,
and the rest as spares ,
the nubus cards and expansion chassis parked ,
waiting a working Mac nubus chance.....

Other friends still run happy with Mac G5 Pci-x and Pro Tools HD 6

various of them (both Pro Tools Versions) have also analog consoles or Summ Rigs ,

which use depending on sound "flavours" required ..... ,

considering however the processing power of new last Apple Mac Pro ,
and M1 cpu ,
for many type of songs seems unnecessary to have Pro Tools....

what will be the Avid future ???

 

[JohnRoberts]

hate the game not the playa....

a couple decades ago I read a book called "die broke", their key premise was to convert assets into annuity like revenue streams. The best I could do was develop two different product royalty agreements with manufacturers to build and sell my designs, but neither survived more than several years (nice while it lasted).

Some products make more sense to merchandise with subscription models. Most people think of apple as a hardware company but they are pedaling as fast as they can to expand recurring subscription services.

JR

PS: I am well on my way to dying broke, but precise planning (for exactly when?) is difficult.

 

[pucho812]

If I work in town, it's a given that all the rooms will be PT setups, but I've kept my promise to never give Avid a dime in my own room. Paying for over-the-phone support, the AAX debacle, and the elitism are just a handful of the turn-offs that will keep me away. The subscription thing is not a surprise, either. I'm surprised they're this late to adopt it. Then again, it also seems a bit strange as long as they're still trying to maintain a foot in the hardware world with the HDX stuff—right?

Well even with using low latency monitoring, HDX is still superior for that while tracking and doing overdubs. It's the one thing that really sets them apart these days.

95' I took a 18 month course in audio production (SAE), 6 months of that were focussed on digital audio.
The teacher for that period was a guy from digidesign and he introduced us to protools 1.
He was a very nice guy but I did not like the fact that they where pushing their junk on us during a paid for education, it felt like a marketing ploy.
The main reason for my aggitation was that the sound sucked !

Anybody worked on protools 1 ?

I told him there was something inherently wrong with the software as everything sounded weird and phasey in the top end, but no I was wrong, it was just me who was not used to digital sound yet.

Yeah right.

We now know how that turned out... lol, I was right !

So F*** protools forever !

Funny you should say that. I was forced into using the daw, at the time when i started the main format was still analog tape. But I got dragging into using it, kicking and screaming. In hindsight it was a good idea but back then I didn't like the sonic. By the time you could actually mix a large track count in the box, 48, I again was dragged into that kicking and screaming. Back then I could tell that when I monitored my mix was nice and wide and everything it should be. But the moment I would do a bounce of that mix, everything changed. My nice wide mix became small and boxy, not nearly as wide and not nearly as good. I showed this to the folks at then digidesign and they thought I was crazy, that nothing had changed when doing the bounce, that they didn't hear a difference. here we are almost 2 decades later and I still say that, and they still say that. I am not crazy, I even pointed out to them how it changes from bouncing to disk vs, printing to a track vs monitoring a stereo out. I showed them exactly what was what and nope, I am the crazy one... To this day it still has not been resolved.


Worse was I was doing an install decades ago and the digidesign product specialist did the whole layout of the rig. I had zero input, I just put it together. When I saw what was being purchased, I raised a concern. At the time the client wanted two digital monitors(screens) for the rig. The only way to achieve that back then was a second video card. My concern was a conflict between the second video card and the digidesign expansion chassis. Sure enough my concern was founded. we build the rig for this big studio in town and it has issues. We called the digidesign direct line, something dealers have access to, it's like the bat phone for tech support. Anyway their tech support is telling me exactly what I was telling their product specialist guy and the client about conflict between the second video card and expansion card, something I had expressed concern on before buying all the stuff. That the only solution was to not use a second video card.
Boy did I get into a ton of trouble for that one. I fell on the sword even though I had not did the layout of what to buy and how it would work.
so yeah screw them.

 

[fazer]

well the info seems to be mixed but if you have a perpetual license and renew it, it still works as before I think.

So you have a perpetual for ultimate. You renew and what version do they give you? And after you install new version, will it run without renewed next year. I think I would rather just keep my ultimate version and run it till it’s impractical. My current cheese grater PCIe cards is old. If I get a mini with m1 going I might have a good run so that is where I would like to land. they have version for ultimate and M1 I think. I better download before it all disappears from my product support page. My studio one runs pretty well through my HD hardware but I need to setup a drum bass guitar session and see how the headphones feel for latency.

 

[pucho812]

So you have a perpetual for ultimate. You renew and what version do they give you? And after you install new version, will it run without renewed next year. I think I would rather just keep my ultimate version and run it till it’s impractical. My current cheese grater PCIe cards is old. If I get a mini with m1 going I might have a good run so that is where I would like to land. they have version for ultimate and M1 I think. I better download before it all disappears from my product support page. My studio one runs pretty well through my HD hardware but I need to setup a drum bass guitar session and see how the headphones feel for latency.

Work has a ultimate. And yes that is the game plan at the moment

 

[boji]

My concern was a conflict between the second video card and the digidesign expansion chassis.

We're going wayyyy back, but I remember in order to get some of my first soundcards to play together, I had to modify the driver on one of the two cards, even thought the ISA buses were being told the cards were on the same channel. These cards had no jumpers to assign IRQ, so the hack would not always work well, and occasionally the audio would get nasty. BSOD's were part of life, but it was worth it to experience playback during recording.

Wouldn't surprise me if you were dealing with IRQ doubling, and digidesign's software workaround did not play nice with the OS.

 

[john12ax7]

I refuse to deal with the monthly subscription nonsense, having to pay a monthly fee to access old projects is complete bs. So I'll ride with my current version. What are the alternatives though? Been using Cubase more for production, but hard to beat Pro Tools for recording and mixing.

 

[fazer]

https://avid.secure.force.com/pkb/articles/faq/Pro-Tools-Tiers

avid explanations on tiers

 

[cyrano]

Protools has been sold to STG:

https://www.reuters.com/markets/dea...-bln-deal-avid-technology-sources-2023-08-09/
https://www.production-expert.com/production-expert-1/why-people-are-concerned-about-the-avid-deal

 

[fazer]

PE has taken over this business in both product developer and the sales end. Sweetwater (in the US) was sold this year. I’ll have to see where it goes. I’m out of the game these days so my back is not up against the wall.

 

[pucho812]

PE has taken over this business in both product developer and the sales end. Sweetwater (in the US) was sold this year. I’ll have to see where it goes. I’m out of the game these days so my back is not up against the wall.

What? Sweetwater was sold?

 

[fazer]

Yes PE group bought it.

 

[user 37518]

The latest in pro tools is elimination perpetual ownership of the pro tools software license in favor of subscription based models.
While the idea has worked well with other companies like adobe and altium. The daw is something I do not regularly update unless there is some feature I have to have. Kind of screws things a bit.
Let’s see how this plays out

Regardless of who is the owner now, it sounds to me like Digidesign/Avid/Whatever are just being the typical as***** that they have always been. However, in my experience, these sort of things usually backfire for them and they end up giving in. Lets see how it goes.