B-ringer Cybermix CM 8000 as summing mixer

[smallbutfine]

PS: a very decent midi controlled analog automation of this kind is austrian Höf's HF-16 but a bit pricey....
It is not vca based and pretty pretty neutral in sound.

 

[kafuhaus]

As I interpreted it, you only want to use the box, and front panel of the Cybermix and connect it to the neumann v475 for summing. Did I getr it right? Why did you choose the v475?

yeah right! i'm just gonna use the box. i chose the 475 because some people here used it (there must be a whole thread about that here somewhere) and because i got it cheap.

cheers max

 

[helterbelter]

Okay, glad to see there's some interest in this topic !

before people start thinking of changing the audiopath: I think it can only be a small improvement to change the opamp or the caps. In fact, the thing doesn't sound that bad when you set the fader to 0dB..... But when you start to move with the faders, here's where it goes wrong, especially when you automate it. The faderlaw sucks (the range is pretty narrow), and the VCA steering design isn't good enough for smooth fades... (at least, as far as I can see right now, but I must add that I'm a noob when it comes to this stuff).

When I control it from cubase, the so-called Zipper artifacts come up, and that's surely not what I want. This way it's only good for recalling the right fadersettings, not for continuous control. Also the control voltagerange is pretty narrow, so it might be a bit unstable compared to the controlvoltage that the SSL VCA's use.

I'll look into the VCA steering design later this week, or maybe next week... It looks pretty the same as the SSL aux vca design, it just uses different resistors in the trimming circuit, which actually defines the faderlaw.....

And about the V475 : If you want to use the frontpanel of the CM, be sure that you can wire it as balanced TRS.
I'm not really sure, but I think that using unbalanced connections might affect the sum since the resistornetwork in front of the inputransformer is setup for balanced connections. When you insert 2 unbalanced signals that share the same ground, the total resistance of the negative line will decrease (but that depends on how you connect the unbalanced inputs)...... I can imagine that this will cause phaseproblems... But as I said, maybe I'm wrong. You'd better ask Volker or Kubi for this matter. As I said, I'm a noob.

 

[thecheat]

Hey guys,
Just wanted to chime in, my Mackie Ultramix sounds great and i use it every day. And if the behringer guts are at all like the mackie guts, id beware of opening it up. you remember those old 40s pictures of the ENIAC? its like that. the SSL i had to rip apart was less daunting.

if anyone has any of the ULTRA-34 expanders for the aforementioned Mackie Ultramix, let me know i need another one!

68 channels here i come baby!


Chris

Most probably changing 4580 opamps to something more decent like 5532 or even mc3378 would do more to the sound than changing caps alone....
All those 100n ceramic caps in those older B. units are crap if I memorize my measurements correctly.
Electros were Jamicon in my unit, which were bad as well at this time.
Just a week ago I had to order psu caps for an active subwoofer, where those jamicons went bad as well after less than 10 yrs in a supposedly decent circuit (cabasse).
Changing to nichicon may be a good idea.
I slaughtered one of these units for the vca's only....but still have another one that I never used.
Changing caps and opamps might be a hell of a work...
I guess the CM8000 was a ripoff from Mackies Ultramix (the automation unit addon of the LM3204 rackmixer). Did the Ultramix sound any good? If yes, than maybe part changes could do st good to the CM8000, otherwise I guess it's not worth the hassle.....

Kind regards,
Martin 

 

[helterbelter]

I've been looking for the Ultramix too. Are they controllable from a DAW, or do you need to run a seperate program for it ? How much have you paid for it ? Just curiosity, when I see one for sale, I'll let you know.

By the way, I bought a MOTU Midimixer 7s last weekend. I have to wait a 1 or 2 weeks before it gets here, but I'm curious how it works. I don't know if it's VCA based or not. If it doesn't suit my needs, I can always sell it again. Probably as a set with my racked Neumann V475, haha.

I also saw a Soundcraft Delta VCA PCB on Ebay this week. It has the same circuit as the behringer. Also the same 4580D opamps. The CV circuit wasn't on that board though.....

 

[Bernard]

Hello,

By the way, I bought a MOTU Midimixer 7s last weekend.

I did too  But without any manual 

The only doc i found was a poor textfile from MOTU about controllers codes. I have tested these codes and written a somewhat more readable controllers map here : http://www.midimetric.com/download/midimixer7s_controllers_map.xls

If you have the real manual would you share it ? I wonder what is the purpose of the tiny 'program' button...

Many thanks for your time and sorry for the off-topic post.
For private response, plesae mail to bernard (at) midimetric (dot) com

 

[helterbelter]

Hello Bernard, welcome here !

I haven't got the manual either.... But, I read on the internet that it can be controlled with a behringer BCF controller. So it shouldn't be too hard to get it working... The Motu doesn't use VCA's, so it's of no use for me, so won't start to experiment with it. Probably my motu will go to a friend, who is more experienced with midi than me.

 

[Bernard]

The manual seems quite uncommon.. too bad. Thanks for your response anyway.

 

[RyanC]

I just got a mackie ultramix for pretty much the same thing-

Did anyone figure out the midi on this?  Or is it worth it to just use the software on a w95 machine?

I'll have it in a few days so I wont ask a million questions but I would love it if anyone knew anything about using it just with a DAW.

I'm looking at doing a 34x10 (or ??)x2 active bus mixer with no auto on the 10 or the 2, but it could be patched to be a 24x10 with auto if need be. Anyone else turning any of these into mixers?

Thanks

 

[solderspongebob]

When I control it from cubase, the so-called Zipper artifacts come up,

Maybe the zipper noise can be tamed by adding a capacitor of suitable value between the CV line and ground to smooth out the stepped changes (quick and dirty illustration below)

(This would have to been done on each VCA)

Just a thought to toss into the mix!

 

[D3R1D3X]

Hi!

I have a Cybermix for sale for 50 Euros. PM me if interested!

 

[JoaT]

Just bought me a Cybermix today. Didn't know I will when I woke up.  ;D

Is there any new developments on the midi control of this thing? I wish I can set mine up with a BCF 2000 and cubase / reaper to get a working VCA system with fader controller. I don't actually even mind running a separate computer to control the Cybermix, but it would be cool to have my BCF to talk to the system anyway.

I know this is an old topic, but hey..

Also, anyone tested this cap idea to reduce zipper noise?

 

[helterbelter]

Eeeehhh, I still haven't figured out all I wanted to do. I have bought a Mackie board instead, but I haven't hooked it up into my console either. Just too many other things that have more priority (yes, even though it's almost 2 years later, hahaha).

This Mackie board can be controlled by a Midimapper tool though, so it should be possible to use it with the Behringer as well.

I actually managed to get the cybermix running from cubase, but when I stopped the play button, all channels were muted. I didn't figure out how to avoid that, but I didn't spend much time into it anyway, so it might be quite simple.

Anyway, I still have the behringer. I hope to be able to start my VCA control project early 2011. But as you can see, things are taking much more time than what I have in mind, hahaha. I might not need VCA control anyway !

 

[JoaT]

Are the channel faders sent as midi notes with value as a velocity (or aftertouch)?

If so, mutes happen automatically at sequencer stop. All sequencers send all notes off then. On some it can be configured not to.

Just a thought..

But I'll need to dig in to that midi implementation myself anyway. And as said, I don't mid much if I need to run it with a separate computer.

 

[helterbelter]

Yep, midinotes with velocity.
(And yes, I know about the note offs but my lazy 3min search didn't solve it, hahaha).

I have written down which notes are needed.. somewhere. I have got the original software in case you need it. But graphically it's just sooooooo old.

Anyway, I have readout the notes with MidiOX. But when using the Cybermix with Midi alone, you'll need other notes than what the CM-program is sending.
Cybermixes can be cascaded : Connect the first to the computer with Comport, and connect the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Cybermix to the 1st cybermix by using the Midi daisychain.

So, when using the Cybermix without the COM cable, you'll need to use the midinotes as used for the 2nd machine in the cascade. Tadaa. That works.  But that's also where i stopped my journey, because I was too lazy to work out a decent midimapper tool. (nah, not too lazy, just a lot of other stuff that had more priority).

 

[Gertius]

Hi helterbelter,
I know this topic is quite old, but I was wondering if you still have that opening sequence that has to be sent to the Cybermix to accept midi messages.
I´m in the process of acquiring one and would like to communicate to it over midi.
Of course I could try and make the old software run and look at all the output, but if you´d still have it lying around somwhere I´d be very grateful if you could send it to me.

Cheers!
Christian

 

[helterbelter]

Christian, thank you for getting me back into the cybermix

I made these this weekend...
Did some tracesearching, made a schematic out of the audio and CV circuit, and for fun, I also redrawn the Ultramix schematic to see the differences in a quick glance :
(Notice the direction of the electrolyt at the audio input of the Cybermix ?!?, also, the 47r on the output of the 4558 is not a mistake of mine)


For the guys who want to mod the cybermix, here's the component layout. I haven't added all traces, just the ones needed to see the direction.
Only an odd channel shown, the even channels are populated the same, but mirrored (except for the voltageline of the TL074, of course.)

 

[Gertius]

Hi helterbelter,
wow, thanks for making and posting these!
Great work!!

As I told you per PM already, I am quite far in getting the Cybermix to run via MIDI CCs and will post my results here when it´s working completely.

Cheers!
Christian

 

[helterbelter]

Hi Guys,

Well, I tried to get my cybermix running again, but I just don't get connection through the com port anymore. Tried several PC's, with different com ports, quadruple checked the comcable, checked the correct port settings : it looks like my cybermix went dead....

If somebody here (preferably located in the EU) has one, and is willing to sell it to me (for a today's value), please send me a PM.

greetings,

Paul

 

[clintrubber]

Hi,

Old thread, old box, but who knows, anybody has some inside pics of the CM8000 CyberMix ?

Thanks!