Balloons

[Brian Roth]

This is interesting:

https://aviationweek.com/defense-sp...y-clubs-missing-balloon-feared-shot-down-usaf
This a hobby I never heard of..."pico balloons".

It combines amateur (ham) radio and GPS location electronics with small, inexpensive helium-filled balloons.

I find this new thing to be a rather interesting hobby. Back in the 1960's, several of my nerdy friends were regularly flying small Estes (brand) rockets into the sky. I was just a nerdy observer as they spent THEIR allowance money at the local hobby stores.

Lots of other interesting websites about the hobby if you search the net.

Bri

Edit/PS: The Estes company is still around!

https://estesrockets.com/

 

[crazydoc]

My son and I built and flew those rockets 40+ years ago. The last one, we adapted the largest engine made to the smallest rocket - never saw that rocket again.

 

[boji]

Using high performance aircraft to take down slow moving balloon seems a mismatch. It seems like the aircraft guns could easily deflate a balloon, even cheaper than an unarmed sidewinder.

I heard this decision was made as a result of a previous RCAF incident. Apparently the Canadians trained their gatling guns on a runaway balloon of theirs, and ~2k bullets later it still managed to float out over international waters and was lost at sea.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I heard this decision was made as a result of a previous RCAF incident. Apparently the Canadians trained their gatling guns on a runaway balloon of theirs, and ~2k bullets later it still managed to float out over international waters and was lost at sea.

They surely didn't hit that balloon with 2,000 rounds, and then watched it float away?

The gatling gun was a 19th century hand cranked machine gun with multiple barrels used during our civil war. This inspired the mini-guns used on viet nam era helicopter gun ships with an impressive fire rate of 3,000 to 6,000 rounds per minute. So firing 2,000 rounds from a modern mini gun takes less than one minute.
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These hobby balloons with smart phone trackers sound like fun, but flying them up into civilian airspace could be an issue. Probably more of an irritation than hazard, but likely illegal.

JR

PS; Drones would be cheaper than flying high performance jets, and probably more effective against slow moving targets.

 

[boji]

True. It was 1k rounds from a Vulcan-type rotating boomstick, which is also fairly unbelievable.
https://apnews.com/article/268893fddde785d029d5a51b136951eb

 

[JohnRoberts]

True. It was 1k rounds from a Vulcan-type rotating boomstick, which is also fairly unbelievable.
https://apnews.com/article/268893fddde785d029d5a51b136951eb

They say they fired 1000 rounds "into" it. I might rephrase that as fired 1,000 rounds "at" it. A 25 stories tall helium filled balloon needs to be vented from the top otherwise it will stay up, but surely they know that.

I'm glad they didn't waste expensive missiles on it like we do a little too easily.

I still expect drones with small arms munitions to be the more sensible solution.

JR

 

[user 37518]

They say they fired 1000 rounds "into" it. I might rephrase that as fired 1,000 rounds "at" it. A 25 stories tall helium filled balloon needs to be vented from the top otherwise it will stay up, but surely they know that.

I'm glad they didn't waste expensive missiles on it like we do a little too easily.

I still expect drones with small arms munitions to be the more sensible solution.

JR

So a flying missile travelling at several times the speed of sound can be easily intercepted by the Patriot system or something like the Israeli Iron Dome, or whatever the Canadians have, but a virtually stationary balloon is suddenly a problem to take down? right....

 

[JohnRoberts]

So a flying missile travelling at several times the speed of sound can be easily intercepted by the Patriot system or something like the Israeli Iron Dome, or whatever the Canadians have, but a virtually stationary balloon is suddenly a problem to take down? right....

As I recall, not very easily, I don't think they ever had a 100% success rate against stopping the missiles.

I absolutely do not want the military industrial complex developing new munitions to more effectively take down hobby balloons.

I thought it was interesting that they shot down one ballon with an unarmed missile, although it took two shots (at $200K each).

Perhaps a piper cub with a pellet gun?

JR

 

[user 37518]

As I recall, not very easily, I don't think they ever had a 100% success rate against stopping the missiles.

I absolutely do not want the military industrial complex developing new munitions to more effectively take down hobby balloons.

I thought it was interesting that they shot down one ballon with an unarmed missile, although it took two shots (at $200K each).

Perhaps a piper cub with a pellet gun?

JR

I once hit a flying bird with my bow and arrow, I must reckon it was a fluke, but I did it. If a bunch of trained army men can't take a balloon down, I would say they are useless, missile or not.

The Israelis didn't have 100% success rate at stopping a swarm of incoming missiles, but, with less missiles, the Iron Dome is very effective. In any case, I think that a balloon is as easy as it gets when it comes to flying targets. The Taliban used to take down many choppers with bazookas, RPGs or whatever; perhaps the Canadians should talk to the Taliban and ask for advice?

 

[crazydoc]

"I once hit a flying bird with my bow and arrow, I must reckon it was a fluke"

Randy Johnson hit one with a baseball.

 

[user 37518]

"I once hit a flying bird with my bow and arrow, I must reckon it was a fluke"

Randy Johnson hit one with a baseball.

Amazing! However, I was targeting at the bird. I was 15 y/o...

 

[JohnRoberts]

Yup I recall when that unfortunate bird flew into Randy Johnson's strike zone.
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For now at least I suspect the vast majority of the many (hundreds, thousands?) small balloons in our skies are mostly innocent.

I will wait for the final analysis of the Chinese spy balloon's intelligence gathering package, that they did recover and shipped to FBI's Quantico lab for review. But they may not be very forthcoming due to embarrassment. Photos reveal multiple antennas, perhaps to pick up weather reports from the ground.

I will give POTUS credit for saying to shoot it down when he was first told about it. China is testing us and eying Taiwan for more than balloon flyovers. Coincidentally the administration has recently stopped funding the surveillance balloons used at our southern border.

JR

 

[user 37518]

I believe I read somewhere that China asked the US to return the remains of the balloon back to them.

 

[JohnRoberts]

They can have it after we dissect it...

JR

 

[user 37518]

They can have it after we dissect it...

JR

That is like throwing a rock at your neighbor's window and then asking him to give the rock back after you broke it, and without the intention of paying back.

You guys are totally justified to stand your ground and tell China to go to fly a kite. But, then again, your president should be playing Bingo in a retirement home rather than ruling the (still?) most powerful country in the world (I shouldn't be pointing fingers, since ours is much worse).

 

[JohnRoberts]