Ben,
finally we are talking! Too bad we had to go public for this to happen.
None of this would have happened should you have answered some emails.
I believe some stuff should be improved in the way you operate your company. Perhaps some building methods, most probably QC, and definitely comunication.
« As far as a Note, what do you want me to say on it? perhaps "hi friend, here is your capsule » »
And why not ? Just a business card with something like 'Sorry for the delay. Best wishes. Ben.' could go a long way. And it would have took you less time than answering this thread.
I wasn't even sent a shipping notification email...
« I may be very busy and have to limit my emails but if you have a problem with the quality of the capsule, why would you post it here without first emailing me. »
Because you do not answer emails ! The K7 group buy thread is filled with complaints about you not answering emails. I sent you several emails talking about technical issues I had with another one of your products, and asking for ETA. NEVER got any response from you ! Re-read my email dated from Nov 2d 2010... I'm still waiting for your answer, and I know you've read it because that the same email I placed my order for the K7. Or should I post that one here too ?
What's a customer to do when he asks nicely and politely, shows patience and understanding, and is not even given the courtesy of an answer?
I started this thread because that was the ONLY way to get you to answer me. I delayed this for a long time but YOUR attitude left me with no other choice.
« 1) the capsule is mountable, the slight rubber imperfection will cause no issues »
Sorry but to me, it is an issue. I expect my capsule to sit straight inside a straight head basket. And what if I wanted to mount it in a narrower head basket? Then it will touch grille...
« 2)When you are working with a fine screw into plastic, occasionally one may cross, this is easy to rectify, just back the screw out and re screw it, the thread will be fine as the acetal we use is very flexible. »
In my (admitted limited) understanding of machining, I always thought that once a threaded hole is found to be offset, there no way to rectify it but to drill a bigger hole and use a bigger screw (and that seldom work) or to fill it and start all over again. Are you saying that the acetal is elastic enough that the new tap will not be driven in the old one, and that the thread would not be damaged and remain as strong as they would have been?
I am the kind of guy who needs to understand. Is the acetal pre-threaded or not? Or do you just force the screw into a drilled hole so it self-taps its way down? In which case how do you make sure that the m1.4 screw remains perpendicular to the backplate while taping?
What I want to understand is how could an offset screw happen, and is done to prevent it?
And if sh*t happens, and the fix is so simple, why did you let it out without fixing it?
“Do me a favour, please start to make capsules the proper way so we can all buy them and the world will be a better place, your skills must be better than mine!!!”
Relax! No need to get on your high horse. I never claimed to be a capsule builder. As the saying goes, I barely know enough to be dangerous
YOU are the expert, and as such, I expect you to be able to come with a more detailed explanation than just 'it will cause no issues', or 'won't adversely affect the sound'
“this is due to the screw not seating correctly, the fix is described above. For this i do accept blame, i must have missed this one though it won't adversely affect the sound, granted it is ugly and i will fix it if you won't.”
If it's so simple to fix, I'd gladly publicly apologize, and fix it myself, but as stated above, I need to clearly understand the process.
“Was that hole hand drilled or what? Any decent CNC, or even drill press, is supposed to drill reasonably perpendicular holes, ain't it? Unless the operator forgot to clean the jig, and left some metal chips on it, offsetting the backplate.... Back to machining 101 then... And even if such a mistake happens, 10 seconds of simple visual inspection should have resulted in this particular capsule being rejected.[/quote]
"Back to machining 101 then aye
Please come and teach me, i'll even pay your airfares.”
Again, you are the capsule expert, not me! All I could ever dream to teach you is how to deal in a less contemptuous way with people who are not seeking for a fight...
btw, our cnc's combined value is over 600k
What's that? A peing contest? You CNCs are certainly bigger than mine, as I ain't got any...
I'm not impressed, China is full of manufacturers that owns even bigger CNCs than yours, and I'm not impressed by their products. Neumann and others proved many years ago that there's no need for CNC to build a good capsule. And what's the point of investing 600K in CNCs if you don't end up with better precision?
Wow, way to go mate, slander me in an open forum and then wonder if you'll be able to get a refund!!!
As pointed out by Gemini86 who gave you good advice : This is NOT something that anyone wants to hear.
I'm not slandering you, I'm just asking questions whose answers I feel entitled too.
I'm sorry for you if your rep gets damaged in the process, but you can only blame it on your own attitude.
I am not concerned by the possibility to get a refund or not, as I believe that doing the right thing is worth much more than 200$
spend a little less time bitching and more time listening and you'll be pleasantly surprised.........
Again, I'm not 'bitching', but since pleasant surprises are what I live for, I definitely plan some careful listening, and comparison with the best reference I can get my hands on, which BTW, happen to be a real VF14 equipped with a Thiersch PVC M7.
« Another case of foot in mouth disease...... do you think we would be so stupid as to send it this way. man your are a funny guy..... see above post for explanation. »
I do not use expressions like 'foot in mouth disease', or words like 'stupid', so don't get offended, but you're the one who sent me an 'ugly' capsule, as you named it.
Let it be known here publicly that we have delivered these capsules to you all at cost, i was trying to do a nice thing for a group of people that i thought could benefit from our product. As it turns out, our niceness will cause irreparable damage to our company. Often Forum members wonder why manufacturers are so hesitant to come to the party. In the future, we too will be hesitant to entertain any group buy efforts.
Quote from: gemini86 on July 31, 2011, 09:48:39 pm
wow... Ben, I understand that it must be EXTREMELY irritating to have people start a complaint thread before contacting you...STILL, the sarcasm and belittlement in your tone is unprofessional... Simple be polite and explain your points without talking to the group like we're a bunch of whining 3 year old brats. I've seen a couple threads like this in the past, buyer gets frustrated and starts bashing, others join in, manufacturer gets wind and makes a new account just to counter bash, rather than politely correct the issue at hand.
Not impressed by this thread either way.
(btw: I've had to deal with the wrinkled capsule bit as well. Ben is right, it usually is the center screw that causes it. I couldn't tell a difference either way.
I realise that my sarcasm may be deemed as unprofessional but this thread isn't an attack on a massive corperation, it is an attack on a company who's owner has 4 children and who has to pay 10 wages each week, threads like this close company's like ours so believe you me, it is personal....especially considering the fact that we did these at cost with only the best intentions.
Any of my posts are not attacks on the group buy, just the poster who's post i am quoting. please don't read more into it than is needed. thanks . ben
This is not an attack, and sarcasm and bashing is certainly not the solution.
Please note that I'm doing my best to remain polite and objective.
I'd buy from a craftsman or a small company any day rather than from a big corp, as I fully support the former 'oldschool' business model...
But being a small business forbids you to treat me like a big corp would.
I understand that errors are bound to happen when you are human, but errors only exist to be corrected, and it will certainly do wonders to your business if you could do that.
You have the opportunity to do it, …. or not. I sincerely hope you will choose the first option, for yourself, for your family, for your company and employees, and for the world to be a better place with good capsules makers on it.
Axel
P.S. I also sent you email. You might want to read it.
finally we are talking! Too bad we had to go public for this to happen.
None of this would have happened should you have answered some emails.
I believe some stuff should be improved in the way you operate your company. Perhaps some building methods, most probably QC, and definitely comunication.
« As far as a Note, what do you want me to say on it? perhaps "hi friend, here is your capsule » »
And why not ? Just a business card with something like 'Sorry for the delay. Best wishes. Ben.' could go a long way. And it would have took you less time than answering this thread.
I wasn't even sent a shipping notification email...
« I may be very busy and have to limit my emails but if you have a problem with the quality of the capsule, why would you post it here without first emailing me. »
Because you do not answer emails ! The K7 group buy thread is filled with complaints about you not answering emails. I sent you several emails talking about technical issues I had with another one of your products, and asking for ETA. NEVER got any response from you ! Re-read my email dated from Nov 2d 2010... I'm still waiting for your answer, and I know you've read it because that the same email I placed my order for the K7. Or should I post that one here too ?
What's a customer to do when he asks nicely and politely, shows patience and understanding, and is not even given the courtesy of an answer?
I started this thread because that was the ONLY way to get you to answer me. I delayed this for a long time but YOUR attitude left me with no other choice.
« 1) the capsule is mountable, the slight rubber imperfection will cause no issues »
Sorry but to me, it is an issue. I expect my capsule to sit straight inside a straight head basket. And what if I wanted to mount it in a narrower head basket? Then it will touch grille...
« 2)When you are working with a fine screw into plastic, occasionally one may cross, this is easy to rectify, just back the screw out and re screw it, the thread will be fine as the acetal we use is very flexible. »
In my (admitted limited) understanding of machining, I always thought that once a threaded hole is found to be offset, there no way to rectify it but to drill a bigger hole and use a bigger screw (and that seldom work) or to fill it and start all over again. Are you saying that the acetal is elastic enough that the new tap will not be driven in the old one, and that the thread would not be damaged and remain as strong as they would have been?
I am the kind of guy who needs to understand. Is the acetal pre-threaded or not? Or do you just force the screw into a drilled hole so it self-taps its way down? In which case how do you make sure that the m1.4 screw remains perpendicular to the backplate while taping?
What I want to understand is how could an offset screw happen, and is done to prevent it?
And if sh*t happens, and the fix is so simple, why did you let it out without fixing it?
“Do me a favour, please start to make capsules the proper way so we can all buy them and the world will be a better place, your skills must be better than mine!!!”
Relax! No need to get on your high horse. I never claimed to be a capsule builder. As the saying goes, I barely know enough to be dangerous
YOU are the expert, and as such, I expect you to be able to come with a more detailed explanation than just 'it will cause no issues', or 'won't adversely affect the sound'
“this is due to the screw not seating correctly, the fix is described above. For this i do accept blame, i must have missed this one though it won't adversely affect the sound, granted it is ugly and i will fix it if you won't.”
If it's so simple to fix, I'd gladly publicly apologize, and fix it myself, but as stated above, I need to clearly understand the process.
“Was that hole hand drilled or what? Any decent CNC, or even drill press, is supposed to drill reasonably perpendicular holes, ain't it? Unless the operator forgot to clean the jig, and left some metal chips on it, offsetting the backplate.... Back to machining 101 then... And even if such a mistake happens, 10 seconds of simple visual inspection should have resulted in this particular capsule being rejected.[/quote]
"Back to machining 101 then aye
Please come and teach me, i'll even pay your airfares.”
Again, you are the capsule expert, not me! All I could ever dream to teach you is how to deal in a less contemptuous way with people who are not seeking for a fight...
btw, our cnc's combined value is over 600k
What's that? A peing contest? You CNCs are certainly bigger than mine, as I ain't got any...
I'm not impressed, China is full of manufacturers that owns even bigger CNCs than yours, and I'm not impressed by their products. Neumann and others proved many years ago that there's no need for CNC to build a good capsule. And what's the point of investing 600K in CNCs if you don't end up with better precision?
Wow, way to go mate, slander me in an open forum and then wonder if you'll be able to get a refund!!!
As pointed out by Gemini86 who gave you good advice : This is NOT something that anyone wants to hear.
I'm not slandering you, I'm just asking questions whose answers I feel entitled too.
I'm sorry for you if your rep gets damaged in the process, but you can only blame it on your own attitude.
I am not concerned by the possibility to get a refund or not, as I believe that doing the right thing is worth much more than 200$
spend a little less time bitching and more time listening and you'll be pleasantly surprised.........
Again, I'm not 'bitching', but since pleasant surprises are what I live for, I definitely plan some careful listening, and comparison with the best reference I can get my hands on, which BTW, happen to be a real VF14 equipped with a Thiersch PVC M7.
« Another case of foot in mouth disease...... do you think we would be so stupid as to send it this way. man your are a funny guy..... see above post for explanation. »
I do not use expressions like 'foot in mouth disease', or words like 'stupid', so don't get offended, but you're the one who sent me an 'ugly' capsule, as you named it.
Let it be known here publicly that we have delivered these capsules to you all at cost, i was trying to do a nice thing for a group of people that i thought could benefit from our product. As it turns out, our niceness will cause irreparable damage to our company. Often Forum members wonder why manufacturers are so hesitant to come to the party. In the future, we too will be hesitant to entertain any group buy efforts.
Quote from: gemini86 on July 31, 2011, 09:48:39 pm
wow... Ben, I understand that it must be EXTREMELY irritating to have people start a complaint thread before contacting you...STILL, the sarcasm and belittlement in your tone is unprofessional... Simple be polite and explain your points without talking to the group like we're a bunch of whining 3 year old brats. I've seen a couple threads like this in the past, buyer gets frustrated and starts bashing, others join in, manufacturer gets wind and makes a new account just to counter bash, rather than politely correct the issue at hand.
Not impressed by this thread either way.
(btw: I've had to deal with the wrinkled capsule bit as well. Ben is right, it usually is the center screw that causes it. I couldn't tell a difference either way.
I realise that my sarcasm may be deemed as unprofessional but this thread isn't an attack on a massive corperation, it is an attack on a company who's owner has 4 children and who has to pay 10 wages each week, threads like this close company's like ours so believe you me, it is personal....especially considering the fact that we did these at cost with only the best intentions.
Any of my posts are not attacks on the group buy, just the poster who's post i am quoting. please don't read more into it than is needed. thanks . ben
This is not an attack, and sarcasm and bashing is certainly not the solution.
Please note that I'm doing my best to remain polite and objective.
I'd buy from a craftsman or a small company any day rather than from a big corp, as I fully support the former 'oldschool' business model...
But being a small business forbids you to treat me like a big corp would.
I understand that errors are bound to happen when you are human, but errors only exist to be corrected, and it will certainly do wonders to your business if you could do that.
You have the opportunity to do it, …. or not. I sincerely hope you will choose the first option, for yourself, for your family, for your company and employees, and for the world to be a better place with good capsules makers on it.
Axel
P.S. I also sent you email. You might want to read it.
