BM800 capsule mod

[MicMaven]

more interested in what my ears tell me than measurements; can't tell you how many mics or capsules I've seen that measured great and sounded, shall we say, unpleasant - and the TSB2555 was one of them.

Now, in MY studio, MY WIFE prefers the JLI 2550B over either ersatz KK12 models. And she knows EVERYTHING!

Parenthetically, CAD uses the 2555B in some of its models, so has some support. I recently purchased a new CAD E40 for a mere $29 and replaced the original 16mm capsule (which appears to be the ubiquitous BM800/800 type) and my WIFE and I agreed the 2555B sounded smoother, less airy, less harsh with better low end than either KK12 model (i.e, one with and one without the mesh front screen.) Contradicting my young bride is definitely contraindicated relative to long happy life!

Ultimately, you are correct, it turns on one's application and subjective judgment as to which capsule is the better choice for a particular use. I generally use it for spoken word, so a bright , airy high end simply does not matter to either capsule.

Just MY take ... your mileage may differ. James

 

[MicMaven]

Has anyone bought and opened one of these? https://vi.aliexpress.com/item/1005007316631896.html

Yes - absolute junk. James

 

[MicMaven]

Dear Mr. @Technotech - Reading the entire thread, I worry you have your cart before your horse, seeking a solution without clearly defining the problem.

I am NOT being critical or snarky.

A shotgun approach is rarely a good plan. I believe you should clearly define the issue or objective you wish to attain. Initially, you mentioned seeking a low cost way to record your horn without distortion. While I am NOT a qualified recording engineer, I suspect this may be more a matter of proper gain staging than using the wrong microphone or audio interface.

This thread has bounced all around, at one point focusing on replacement capsules, at another point focusing on USB audio interfaces, and at yet another point focusing on very low cost microphones that mimic famous microphones used in recording studios, before mentioning cheap internal circuit boards, and so on.

My recommendation: Step back and take time to specifically define what you wish to accomplish, and identify what is preventing you from reaching that objective. Sleep on it for a few days - the subconscious mind is often a better problem solver than the conscious mind. Keep a notepad on the nightstand so you can record any flashes of genius or inspiration that awaken you at 4 AM (so you can remember later in the morning!)

Do not buy anything unless and until you are certain it solves a specifically defined problem. Modifying microphones for the sake of making modifications is an expensive, often misguided course. You may spend more to modify a cheap microphone, than to buy one that is specifically suited to the task.

Again, I am not being critical or snarky. It just sorta seems you are looking for a solution before clearly defining the problem. And I sorta, almost suspect it is more a matter of proper technique than proper equipment. Happy trails to you. James

 

[k brown]

Now, in MY studio, MY WIFE prefers the JLI 2550B over either ersatz KK12 models. And she knows EVERYTHING!

Parenthetically, CAD uses the 2555B in some of its models, so has some support. I recently purchased a new CAD E40 for a mere $29 and replaced the original 16mm capsule (which appears to be the ubiquitous BM800/800 type) and my WIFE and I agreed the 2555B sounded smoother, less airy, less harsh with better low end than either KK12 model (i.e, one with and one without the mesh front screen.) Contradicting my young bride is definitely contraindicated relative to long happy life!

Ultimately, you are correct, it turns on one's application and subjective judgment as to which capsule is the better choice for a particular use. I generally use it for spoken word, so a bright , airy high end simply does not matter to either capsule.

Just MY take ... your mileage may differ. James

Well, nearly anything would be a big improvement over that little piece of junk capsule that most 'BM800's come with. Though I imagine the CAD comes with a genuine TSB 140A, whereas the BMs I've seen come with what appears to be an even worse Chinese knock-off of it.

 

[MicMaven]

I imagine the CAD comes with a genuine TSB 140A,

Um ... perhaps not, as the original E40 capsule measures 16 mm diameter x 6.3mm , while the 140A measures 14.0 x 6.3 mm. / James

 

[k brown]

Um ... perhaps not, as the original E40 capsule measures 16 mm diameter x 6.3mm , while the 140A measures 14.0 x 6.3 mm. / James

Yes, I misspoke; I meant TSB (JLI) -160.

 

[MicMaven]

Yes, I misspoke; I meant TSB (JLI) -160.

Roger - no worries - just use your "Daily Mulligan" and, just like a friendly game of golf, it will be forgotten like it never happened!

[My wife and I each get a fresh Mulligan every day, which is like having a Monopoly Game Get-out-of-Jail-Free card, but way better because it works in any situation and we don't have to play that awful game to use it! Happy trails to you, old man. James

 

[pmfalcman]

just use your "Daily Mulligan"

I'm (already, somehow) used to not understanding what you guys write. All these fancy, exotic words, this acoustically-electronic abrakadabra. But this time, James, you simply and brazenly exaggerated!
Really, mate! No need to shamelessly show off in front of newbies and uneducated.
I can barely (and on a good day) tell pcb's impedimance from a HF resistractor and you go "Daily Mulligan" all of a sudden? On a Sunday morning?!

 

[k brown]

I'm (already, somehow) used to not understanding what you guys write. All these fancy, exotic words, this acoustically-electronic abrakadabra. But this time, James, you simply and brazenly exaggerated!
Really, mate! No need to shamelessly show off in front of newbies and uneducated.
I can barely (and on a good day) tell pcb's impedimance from a HF resistractor and you go "Daily Mulligan" all of a sudden? On a Sunday morning?!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulligan_(games)

 

[rock soderstrom]

I'm (already, somehow) used to not understanding what you guys write. All these fancy, exotic words, this acoustically-electronic abrakadabra. But this time, James, you simply and brazenly exaggerated!
Really, mate! No need to shamelessly show off in front of newbies and uneducated.
I can barely (and on a good day) tell pcb's impedimance from a HF resistractor and you go "Daily Mulligan" all of a sudden? On a Sunday morning?!

Ha ha, I had to google that first too. Now I'm a bit smarter again, thanks to Groupdiy!

 

[pmfalcman]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulligan_(games)

"Why so serious?"

 

[rogs]

.... I can barely (and on a good day) tell pcb's impedimance from a HF resistractor......

You really need to get the technical details of those things sorted out in your head ..... especially if you intend to build more advanced projects - like a Flux Capacitor, for example ?

 

[Technotech]

Yes - absolute junk. James

Thanks, good to know.

I believe you should clearly define the issue or objective you wish to attain. Initially, you mentioned seeking a low cost way to record your horn without distortion. While I am NOT a qualified recording engineer, I suspect this may be more a matter of proper gain staging than using the wrong microphone or audio interface.

Yes, the main goal is to record my instrument. I put it down for 2 years and can barely play the thing now, so I’d like to see if I can make it into a sample library while I try and re-learn how to properly play it. I’m glad you brought up your second point there, but in this case I think it actually is the microphone.
This is what I got, and I’m aware that I’m probably putting a target on my back just by posting it here (it was not at full price) https://www.amazon.com.au/gp/aw/d/B0CLRKRGG1/
I’m 90% sure the gain problem is just a mic problem - I had to sit about 2m from the mic just to have it stop peaking harshly, at which point it was no longer sounding close to the mic, and the recording sounded really quite bad anyway.

This thread has bounced all around

That’s very true. I think it’s mainly because I keep reading new things, but I’m not sure what the best way to approach this idea is. I wasn’t initially thinking about audio interfaces, as I thought I didn’t need one… uninformed on my part I guess.

Do not buy anything unless and until you are certain it solves a specifically defined problem. Modifying microphones for the sake of making modifications is an expensive, often misguided course. You may spend more to modify a cheap microphone, than to buy one that is specifically suited to the task.

In this case I do think I need buy something, but I’m still not entirely sure what.
The main reason I’ve been researching DIY mics is because it seems like the most cost efficient solution to get a decent sounding mic. It sounds most mics up to $100 AUD use smaller, worse capsules. At this point I’ll admit though, I’m not really sure what I should get. I think I need an audio interface, but I don’t know which one to get. Scarlett Solo, Audient Evo 4, or the Behringer UMC204HD, which I’m leaning towards.

My ramblings aside, thanks for the thoughtful reply!

 

[Khron]

The main reason I’ve been researching DIY mics is because it seems like the most cost efficient solution to get a decent sounding mic. It sounds most mics up to $100 AUD use smaller, worse capsules.

For that retail price, yeah, likely. Used though, loads more (and better) options at that price. That sounds like what you might expect to pay for an AKG Perception 200 / 220 / P220. Solder on one capacitor and you've got a pretty nice mic.

https://groupdiy.com/threads/akg-pe...87-5-min-mod-p200-p100-p400-p420.67473/unread

And even that Behringer interface (also, especially used) should be worlds better than any on-board computer sound card (nevermind the more upmarket options). At least you get a real analog preamp, and it's outside of the EMI-hell that the inside of a computer is.

 

[pmfalcman]

You really need to get the technical details of those things sorted out in your head ..... especially if you intend to build more advanced projects - like a Flux Capacitor, for example ?

These are easy. I build them to have fancy doors stops.


OK, they're also useful to disapear unwanted guests.

P. S. I run low on deLoreans unfortunately.

 

[pmfalcman]

In the light of recently (re)defined @Technotech 's goals and needs:
- audio interface (sorta sorted)
- a decent mic
- recording a horn,

maybe a good ol' CM-63 (or two) would be a good solution?
~30 money units (EUR, AUS, CAN or US)
Well built, decent sounding, inexpensive, ready-made.
Can be bought on Ali so no huge postage costs.
DIYing a mic will cost the same or more.
What do you think?
I do field recordings so instruments' recording is not my cup of tea.

I, for one, got locked into thinking along the lines of "BM 800, capsule, DYI".
Maybe drop this path?

 

[Technotech]

Interesting ideas.

That sounds like what you might expect to pay for an AKG Perception 200 / 220 / P220.

Unfortunately that's not the case, actually I can't find anything that's much cheaper than Amazon, for the P220, or P120. A new P220/P420 are both coming in at around $250.

I did find a Scarlett 2i2 (2nd gen) + Rode NT1-A "bundle" for around the same price though, and I haven't yet bought that Behringer. Seems like a decent price?

maybe a good ol' CM-63 (or two) would be a good solution?

I haven't read much about that one, how is it? I can see one for about $50.

I, for one, got locked into thinking along the lines of "BM 800, capsule, DYI".
Maybe drop this path?

I think that might be best.

 

[MicMaven]

maybe a good ol' CM -63 (or two) would be a good solution?
~30 money units (EUR, AUS, CAN or US)
Well built, decent sounding, inexpensive, ready-made.

Good suggestion. I was thinking the same. I acquired a Takstar CM-60 for just $29 (including shipping) eBay. The CL-63 should sound better and provides a 10 dB attenuator pad for recording loud sources. It is a great starter microphone - low cost and not junk. Amazing value, I think.

Similarly, other options include "open box" AKG P170 (newish and not really used) for around $70, or used around $45-50 US. Or the CAD GXL800 (you get a pair new for $70 new, and $45- $50 used.) Maybe a Behringer B5 or C2, or Samson C01small condenser - as you guys suggest, they would be mighty affordable used.

The Behringer UMC204HD USB interface appears to be a really good value at its current $80 US price New, especially as it has four output, when most interface units with two inputs only give two outputs. In fact, I seriously considered it, or the UMC404HD last month.

I also believe a decent, low cost dynamic microphone might serve his purpose. How about a Sennheiser XS1, and there are several good models from Shure, AudioTechnica, SE Electronics, Samson, and other companies that should record his horn well enough ... especially because I STILL sorta kinda think the issue is a matter of gain staging into his current USB microphone . . .

 

[Technotech]

Listening to a demo of the Takstar CM-63, it sounds pretty nice, especially for the price. Still,

I did find a Scarlett 2i2 (2nd gen) + Rode NT1-A "bundle" for around the same price though ($250), and I haven't yet bought that Behringer. Seems like a decent price?

Seems like my options are:

• Behringer UMC204HD ($165) + [Takstar CM-63 ($57) or Sennheiser XS-1 ($90) or Shure PGA58-QTR ($121) or Samson C01 ($120) or Behringer C-1 ($84) or C-2 ($75) or B-5 ($100)]
• Scarlett 2i2 (2nd gen) + Rode NT1-A ($250 for both, used)

Seems like there are a few options for mics, although I'm not really sure which of them is "better than the others". The Behringer C-2 is a standout, since it comes with 2 mics, interesting accessories too. I'm not sure about the XS-1, but seems to sound decent for vocals. The PGA58 doesn't seem to sound as good as the others imo.

I can't find the CAD GXL800 new or used locally. The Behringer B-5 is interesting, but I'm not sure if I'd use the capsule swapping gimmick, but it's neat.

I’m not aware of which mics have usable mic circuits, where I could swap a 25mm capsule in to improve the sound.

especially because I STILL sorta kinda think the issue is a matter of gain staging into his current USB microphone . . .

It's not impossible, but I personally think the mic just peaks really harshly. I can try recording the horn, but I'm not sure you want to hear that... it really did not sound great.

 

[pmfalcman]

How about this one?
Ali shows ca 37 USD for me (Poland).

https://pl.aliexpress.com/item/1005006272702847.html

Apparently they went up in price recently.
I bought from this same vendor for less than 30 USD, mid-year.